Arsenal review, What are your thoughts? Options

[Ed_209a]

One note to potential Darwin Award Nominees.

Removing the 5 meter safety feature on any mini grenade of explosive, Flash Bang, High Explosive, and the like means that it goes boom when dropped. And I mean boom on the first bounce, not the second or third. There is no spoon and ring arming system on mini grenades, that are used in grenade launchers.

WMS

I would say WMS is absolutely correct if we were talking about today's grenade ammo, with it's mechanical fuses. The only way to make a shell detonate inside it's safety zone today is to bypass all the safety devices, make the shell think it has already fired and spun the right number of times. If you do that, you will definitely get what WMS describes. And you will deserve your entry on the Darwin Awards.

In 2070, though, it is harder to say. You may well see all-electronic fuses the size of a dime that are still as smart as today's cell phones. It is entirely possible that the Armorer+Log test actually involves logging into the maintenance port of the grenade, and changing the internal logic from "After acceleration, wait 10 revolutions before listening to the impact sensor" to "After acceleration, wait .25 revolutions before listening to the impact sensor"

[DocTaotsu]

But is it smart enough to accept the command, "Don't blow me up."

[WearzManySkins]

When dealing/working with explosive devices ie grenades I am old school ie K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

In an era of electronic warfare in the battlefield, having widespread electronic(wireless) devices in warheads, could lead to major warhead malfunctions.

But with non electronic(wireless) devices in warheads the effects of electronic warfare or hackers is greatly reduced.

But to each their own, to suite the game that they are gaming or GMing in.

WMS

[Ed_209a]

In an era of electronic warfare in the battlefield, having widespread electronic(wireless) devices in warheads, could lead to major warhead malfunctions.

WMS

I agree with you 100% here about wireless explosives. I don't need to be able to websurf and check my email on my hand grenade.

[Fuchs]

Hm... after a runner with lots of hand grenades had an encounter with a mage that cast "magic fingers" and started to pull some pins, a number of the members of the team at the time started to add fingerprint checks or codes to the grenades to avoid a repetition.. That was before wireless, of course..

[Nightwalker450]

I agree with you 100% here about wireless explosives. I don't need to be able to websurf and check my email on my hand grenade.

The idea is the wireless if off, until activated via manual (via Skinlink most likely). So grab it from your belt, toss it, send wireless signal to detonate. Can be quite smooth (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DMK]

Adding skinlink would cost 50 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per grenade though... seems a bit steep. I'd stick with a simple on/off switch for the wireless connectivity.

[WearzManySkins]

Issue with a wirelessly enable command detonation grenades is what is the signal strength, if a jammer is online and has a stronger jamming signal than your grenades wireless signal then grenade does not go boom.

Remember for wireless to work the signal is bidirectional, meaning the grenades signal has to be able to reach the comm link etc generating the command to go boom.

For command detonators from Arsenal again signal strength can be a key issue, in environment with jamming ongoing.

As for magic fingers effects, try some small carabiners attaching/holding the grenades/rings to the combat harness, fingerprint scanners on hand grenades?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) no too much for Murphy and his relatives. Also if the grenades are not in LOS of the mage attempting to pull rings etc, he can not, so having each under inverse pouch type of affair would work also.

Timing the detonation of a thrown grenade via a wireless link is critical too, again sounds neat but in actual effect no go. Again KISS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Now if you are into complicated ways of doing, have a hacker cracked the software/hardware on a airburst link, then use software/hardware and a smartgun link's laser rangefinder to set the time to travel the distance to the target. Now the software would have to have the average throwing speed of the thrower factored into the arming solution etc. You could also factor into it a biomonitor so the software can take into account any adrenalin or drug enhancements. So then just before the grenade is thrown it is set via the wireless link to detonate at the target's location.

Good luck on the above, my GM heard me out, took into account things he had let me try, and Told Me "No F*ing Way!!!". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

@Fuchs
Your players characters stood still in one place long enough for a mage to do this? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Moving/motion is life, standing still is a body bag waiting to be zipped closed.

WMS

[DingoJones]

Tossing my hat in a little late here, but I just recieved the book a few days ago.

After reading through it, I have to say I am very satisfied with the book. Vehicles are good, weapons are good, the martial arts is good...I have never been a fan of all the chemical stuff but for those that are it covers that fairly well. I also really liked how there is some of the world info stuff with a breakdown of various aspects of how the EQ listings relate to the world itself. All in all, a well written book that is well worth the buy.
One complaint I read was that there wasn't enough military vehicles, specifically the lack of a tank. To me if you need tank stats your doing something wrong, it is Shadowrun after all right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It's pretty easy to make a tank with the things provided in the book anyway, they even provide weapons designed for tanks, throw that on to the APC and put some more armor and body on it and you have your tank.

I have to say, Catalyst has done a really good job with 4th edition. It's comprehensive and easy to use (well, a hell of a lot easier than previous additions but not really as simple as say D&D, though modern gaming systems never are), the books are well written and balanced and the supplements are coming out at a very nice pace.

What i really would like to see is a "monstrous manuel" of some kind, with more paracritters, more stats for security, special ops, military troops, monsters and specific stats for various important sec forces like on Zurich orbital or in the executive offices of a mega corp along with some nasty baddass big guns that the mega's have squirelled away for when the shit really really hits the fan (I always imagined that somehwere in the bowels of some facility there is a 10-15 million dollar killing machine with pure deltaware and bioware and Jason Bourne style skill\combat conditioning).
You could even throw in a whole bunch of unique creepy crawlies and badass from the various metaplanes, even a few adventure\campaign write-ups involving magical threats or sites. I have always thought that Shadowrun lacked those supplements, like the ones D&D has for undermountain or the temple of elemental evil. They came close with the renraku arcology book, but I would like to see some thing with more different kinds of them in one book.

[Vivisection]

thanks for the reply, but that doesnt help. all the SR4 has is the fire resistance, the insulation, and the chem seal. which arsenal already has as seperate entries. the environmental adaptation still remains a mystery, though... unless there's something im missing

[Spike]

Just gotta say, if you are firing smoke grenades that are attached to your armor to generate smoke, you are a hardcore mother-effer.

Those things get HOT. I've seen 'em start small grassfires in dry enough conditions. I honestly don't see any economical benefit to designing cold smoke grenades, and given the value of thermal smokers (where the smoke stays hot...) The trend seems to be the opposite direction, ne?

[BetaFlame]

I agree with you 100% here about wireless explosives. I don't need to be able to websurf and check my email on my hand grenade.

No opinion on the thread, but this is the funniest thing I have read in a week.

[Janice]

I agree with you 100% here about wireless explosives. I don't need to be able to websurf and check my email on my hand grenade.

Come on, you can't tell me you don't want a grenade capable of playing an mp3 clip from "Don't Stop Me Now" when thrown.

[Fix-it]

Come on, you can't tell me you don't want a grenade capable of playing an mp3 clip from "Don't Stop Me Now" when thrown.

The last thing I would want to hear before being blown up would be This

[WearzManySkins]

The last thing I would want to hear before being blown up would be This

After hearing that, the explosion would be relief. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

[Ophis]

After hearing that, the explosion would be relief. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

I remember that piece of crap from when I was kid, I think it got to No. 1 in the UK.

Oh something on topic?

Do all gauss guns half Armour before applying AP? Or is it just the vehicle mounted one?

Also love the new steampunk range in the armoured clothing. In our first post arsenal session everyone bought formfitting, and the two girlie bought up the fashion armour. Plenty of new toys all around.

[Janice]

The last thing I would want to hear before being blown up would be This

I think I'm gonna stick with this, I really don't want to be forced to hate my grenades.

[Jaid]

thanks for the reply, but that doesnt help. all the SR4 has is the fire resistance, the insulation, and the chem seal. which arsenal already has as seperate entries. the environmental adaptation still remains a mystery, though... unless there's something im missing

the page i listed has a table. on that table, as sub-headings under full body armor, you have chem seal and environmental adaptation. in the description for full body armor, it mentions that environmental adaptation makes the armor suitable for hot or cold environments, and chemical seal protects you from toxins and toxic environments.

[DMK]

Hmnn. All this talk of music has me thinking that I really need to put loudspeakers on a large size aerial drone just so it can blast Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries as it does a strafing run. (Yeah, it's cliche. So what? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

[Spike]

Hmnn. All this talk of music has me thinking that I really need to put loudspeakers on a large size aerial drone just so it can blast Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries as it does a strafing run. (Yeah, it's cliche. So what? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

Well, if you are gonna do Cliches, its always good to go with the good ones. I mean, that particular cliche is so good, God created Wagner just to make it possible, right?

[PBTHHHHT]

Well, if you are gonna do Cliches, its always good to go with the good ones. I mean, that particular cliche is so good, God created Wagner just to make it possible, right?

And helicopters

[Vivisection]

the page i listed has a table. on that table, as sub-headings under full body armor, you have chem seal and environmental adaptation. in the description for full body armor, it mentions that environmental adaptation makes the armor suitable for hot or cold environments, and chemical seal protects you from toxins and toxic environments.

well i'll be fragged hard by a flaming monkey. i found it, and i cant belive that i missed it before. i mean... how many times have i been over that page? how could i have missed it that many fraggin times?? ugh... anyway, thanks, chummer.

[Hatspur]

I've always been about flavor in my weapon of choice, and this book delivered. I loved the guns section, and the survival section was unbelievably badass as I do enjoy playing the occasional crazy survivalist man.

There are a few things:

1) 100 nuyen for a telescoping staff that has a decent damage code, excellent reach, and is incredibly easy to conceal? Ok.....

2) How can you release this book with the cover looking so crappy and the second page arms dealer looking so awesome?

3) Spelling/grammar errors on every page. EVERY PAGE!

4) I really hope that whoever decided to put inline skates in this book has read Diamond Age. Because if they did, I love them. Also, if you're going to start ripping off of Stephenson, you need to include the magnetic harpoon (magnapoon).

5) The Hotspur on page 110 looks like the front suspension is off by about a foot.

[Cabral]

2. The front cover is awesome.
4. Are you suggesting that Stephenson invented inline skates in a 1995 book?

[Hatspur]

2. The front cover is awesome.
4. Are you suggesting that Stephenson invented inline skates in a 1995 book?

2. Simply submitting a Philistine's opinion (i.e. mine, not yours)
4. Certainly not, but the only thing they don't have in common are rocket propulsion.