Emotitoys, ... toning down the tingle. Options

[Drogos]

Security is only foolproof up until the time the runners come on the scene.
-Street Proverb

Well, it should be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[WearzManySkins]

Security is only foolproof up until the time the runners come on the scene.
-Street Proverb

Well, it should be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Oh so true so very true.

*Steals for Tagline*

WMS

[Dashifen]

Security is only foolproof up until the time the runners come on the scene.
-Street Proverb

Well, it should be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Or the GM critically glitches damage resistance tests twice in a row ... *grumble*

[WearzManySkins]

Or the GM critically glitches damage resistance tests twice in a row ... *grumble*

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) So that is where my dice went to,,,,I knew I had lost them in relocation move. By all means keep them, please.

WMS

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Would work similarly, I just would prefer to cap the possible successes to an ammount (I know unlikely to fer 6 hits with a DP of 6...but it does happen).

Max hits on the actual social test equals your actual skill maybe? Or skill+attribute if you want to be nice?

[Moon-Hawk]

Max hits on the actual social test equals your actual skill maybe? Or skill+attribute if you want to be nice?

Just to weigh in, I plan to handle emotitoys thusly:
If the toy wants to sit out on the table and "help", verbally and obviously, with a negotiation, then it can make a teamwork test just like anyone could.
If the software is being employed, or if the toy is completely hidden and is communicating via commlink or whatever, this this just falls into the standard +/-3 AR bonus that you can get to virtually anything if you have the correct AR assistance. That rule is on, ummmm, page 208 of SR4. Adds rating, up to a maximum of +3. This is nothing new, and part of the standard reason everyone uses a commlink: +1 to +3 on just about everything.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

If the software is being employed, or if the toy is completely hidden and is communicating via commlink or whatever, this this just falls into the standard +/-3 AR bonus that you can get to virtually anything if you have the correct AR assistance. That rule is on, ummmm, page 208 of SR4. Adds rating, up to a maximum of +3. This is nothing new, and part of the standard reason everyone uses a commlink: +1 to +3 on just about everything.

So simple, yet elegant. Also it helps explain why, with average professionals having threes in skills and attributes, some stuff still manages to get done on a day-to-day basis.

[Fortune]

If the toy wants to sit out on the table and "help", verbally and obviously, with a negotiation, then it can make a teamwork test just like anyone could.
If the software is being employed, or if the toy is completely hidden and is communicating via commlink or whatever, this this just falls into the standard +/-3 AR bonus that you can get to virtually anything if you have the correct AR assistance. That rule is on, ummmm, page 208 of SR4. Adds rating, up to a maximum of +3. This is nothing new, and part of the standard reason everyone uses a commlink: +1 to +3 on just about everything.

So, with these rules, the rating 6 Emotitoy will actually work better as a hidden object (+3 DP modifier) than it would on average when performing in the manner in which it was designed (Average of +2 DP modifier). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Feshy]

I love the emotitoy concept, but I hate the straight bonus mechanic.

Role-playing wise, they are great -- they can help a socially aware character greatly, and they can make things interesting for socially unaware characters that misinterpret their data. My hacker thought the gangers were agitated because the deal they were getting from the Johnson was different than they expected. Turns out they were agitated because they were imposters springing a trap. If you're better with machines than people, the extra data might not help you as much as you think.

Mechanic wise? A straight +6 to all social actions? That's crazy. Just use the rating for the toy's own judge intentions test (that remaining ganger sneaking up behind the meeting? He's got malice on his mind -- a giveway even the socially inept hacker can identify!) and for all other purposes, make it a situational modifier depending on how much knowing the targets emotional state would help. Fluffy reports the corp wage slave you're torturing is terrified? Not much help on intimidation there -- the LMG the troll is waving about is plenty, and the screams make it obvious. Corp wage slave is faking his terror, according to pupil and vascocongestive data? Now that is interesting.

Also a "teamwork" bonus is a fine way of handling the bonus as well. On average, a rating 6 toy can give you two bonus points, something that can easily be negated or even penalized by the presence of the toy (Troll gangers are not impressed by pink monkeys in your pocket...) This can be countered by running the (more expensive) emotisoft in your commlink, but even then the two or so extra dice aren't game breaking (significant, but not game breaking.) Then it becomes a face must-have (and the toys are cheap enough for Johnsons, who don't need style, to use to counter), but the biggest problem then is not the extra couple of dice but rolling twice for every social encounter.

[Fortune]

Maybe we could remove the ratings altogether (and charge the highest rate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), and then just threat them as one of the fluff ways to aquire an AR bonus in social situations (flat +2? +3?).

[Feshy]

Maybe we could remove the ratings altogether (and charge the highest rate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), and then just threat them as one of the fluff ways to aquire an AR bonus in social situations (flat +2? +3?).

I like that idea, except it also needs to work in the emosoft program (which costs 5 times as much?) Or I guess it could also be available as a flat fee at that 5x price...

[Fortune]

Or I guess it could also be available as a flat fee at that 5x price...

That's pretty much what I was thinking, but totally forgot to mention it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[nathanross]

I still don't know how I'd handle it, but I'd maybe roll an opposed rating vs target's composure (or con if the target is actively trying to fool the toy) test. If the target gets more hits, he'll fool the toy.

Altenately, maybe it could be treated as a Teamwork test, with only the Emotitoy's 'hits' adding dice to the character's pool.

I think we should combine these two, and have net hits from the Rating vs Composure roll added to the DP.

Thinking about emo-softs makes me also wonder about assensing. Since assensing can tell you just as much about a characters emotions as an emosoft, shouldn't it also be able to help social tests?

Third, how about limiting the number of net hits that can be applied to the dice pool by capping it at whatever the skill being used is. Afterall, you could know everything there is to know about someone, and it doesn't mean you know how to use it.

[JeffSz]

I haven't seen Arsenal yet...and for some reason I'm picturing an emotitoy as the evolution of real-world Nabaztag or the TuxDroid over the next 62 years. Schwete.

As a hacker, I find them to be the best toy on the market. Once you equip one with a higher signal, a Retrans Unit, and Gecko Tips, you have a common market toy that can climb into places. Once there I can bounce signals off of it to hack short range stuff. I need to up his pilot though so that I can get the rating 6 ECCM to help me get past those wi-fi inhibiting areas. And a little packet of C12 to blow him up if he ever gets caught.

I don't think Hemingway would have been a better writer if he had Clippy the Paperclip telling him "it looks like you're writing a short story, want some help?".

Mr Fluffy says to break his fingers, and get some paper clips and a bunsen burner... He also says we should get a glass pole with a diameter that matches his urethra.

Fluffy reports the corp wage slave you're torturing is terrified? Not much help on intimidation there -- the LMG the troll is waving about is plenty, and the screams make it obvious. Corp wage slave is faking his terror, according to pupil and vascocongestive data? Now that is interesting.

Priceless moments like these are making my first few days on Dumpshock so very entertaining (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DocTaotsu]

Never thought about it before but successes on an assensing test should definitely count towards social tests.

Mechanically I like the third suggestion but if this thing was designed to help out autistic kids that kinda doesn't make sense. Maybe a cap to skill above 3?

[Kremlin KOA]

I think empathy software is totally stupid. It provides a flat, stacking bonus to social skills, one of the easiest dice pools to get really high. Now, if it could only be used by mundanes, you could say "hey, cool, bringing mundane faces more in line with magical ones so that pornomancers aren't the only viable option." Except that pornomasters can (and should, if they're smart) use technology. Empathy software boosts an adept's max dice pool from like 22 to 28. Why? WHY?

But I think emotitoys are totally cool. I like the idea of them, and they could really enhance a character's feel. They're like a familiar for mundanes, which don't require something only a mage could do like using attunement metamagic on a critter or getting an ally spirit to possess an animal as their pet.

I like the OP's balancing of empathy software; ofsetting negative modifiers is very imporant in social situations, and that could let empathy software provide a great bonus without granting a flat 6 dice increase to pools that are often bloated to begin with.

I think thta the idea of just saying they do not stack with kinesics would make your original 'mundanes only' verson work better

[Mäx]

Where does this think about emotitoys being designed to help autistic kids come from, i'm pretty sure it not in the book. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/read.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)

[Particle_Beam]

Meh, the emotitoys just need to be errated, to make more sense.

[Moon-Hawk]

So, with these rules, the rating 6 Emotitoy will actually work better as a hidden object (+3 DP modifier) than it would on average when performing in the manner in which it was designed (Average of +2 DP modifier). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Damn right! I think running emotion analyzing software on your commlink (or patching your commlink directly into a hidden emotitoy's brain) and getting a full AR overlay of all sorts of biometric and body-language information is better than asking a very clever teddy-bear "Is Mr. Johnson angry?" You get more information from by having all the information, than from just getting verbal cues from a fuzzy tomagochi. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Also, I'm sort of trying to discourage teddy bears on the table at all the clandestine criminal pow-wows. It sort of spoils the mood.

[Nightwalker450]

My emotitoy is the only way I'm ever near a meet. Granted my character is a very paranoid Technomancer, and I pride myself in having no contacts (except the one I just picked up in a recent run... couldn't avoid him). My emotitoy is usually clinging to the back of our dwarf adept thrower (who is trying very hard to become more charismatic), so maybe the doll is teaching him something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fortune]

But the teddy bear on the table could still very well be wirelessly hooked up to your PAN, and giving the exact same info as the hidden one, plus the cutesy verbal and visual clues as well.

[DireRadiant]

If you're the Johnson and your negotiation partner brought an emotitoy, wouldn't you just like to hack it to have it give results in your own favor?

"Oooh, look, your teddy bear likes me, it's so cute. So 10% of retail really is all that your loots is worth..."

[Fortune]

Sure, assuming you could. A rating 6 Firewall isn't all that expensive. And you could still skinlink the teddy and hold it in your palm.

But that doesn't really have any impact on just what bonuses the teddy bears should grant under normal curcumstances.

[Blade]

I just had a mental image of a job meeting in a seedy bar with everyone sending their emotitoys to cut the deal with the Johnson...
Beats my idea of a team of short dwarves with blue skins, white pants, white phrygian caps (red for the mage/leader) and no tops (except for the blond girl/face)...

[Siege]

Posergangs!

Brought to you, courtesy of the Night City Tourism board.

-Siege

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)