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> Cracking Programs, What would you allow?
Crackers of the world Unite!
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Total Votes: 73
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 24 2008, 12:08 AM
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Discuss?
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WearzManySkins
post Mar 24 2008, 12:25 AM
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I also allow access to Cracking Gangs. Just like IRL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 24 2008, 12:41 AM
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Crap, I forgot to differentiate between pilots and autosofts in the second question, and six people voted already. Oh well, better late than never.
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Fortune
post Mar 24 2008, 01:50 AM
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Yes.
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 24 2008, 02:35 AM
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Huh. I'm surprised that there are some people who allow cracking of autosofts and drone Pilots, but not hacking programs.

Or was my poll's wording not very good?
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WearzManySkins
post Mar 24 2008, 02:57 AM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 23 2008, 09:35 PM) *
Huh. I'm surprised that there are some people who allow cracking of autosofts and drone Pilots, but not hacking programs.

Or was my poll's wording not very good?

No in my games if it is software, it can be cracked, be it Browse programs, autosofts or Pilots, and more than likely have been cracked, that is why Cracking Gangs exist today and in the future too.

WMS
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Method
post Mar 24 2008, 03:10 AM
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I think one of the best restrictions I've heard of is to make sure the character rolls (i.e. no buying successes) so that any glitch reduces the effective rating of copied programs and any critical glitch destroys the original.
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Abschalten
post Mar 24 2008, 07:24 AM
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I consider any and all software bought pre-chargen to be pre-cracked -- meaning I allow characters to make free copies of anything they have. The only characters I've seen with high across-the-board software ratings are hackers -- who should already have their software cracked anyway. Your non-Matrix-oriented folk will have more modest ratings on their software, and I could easily handwave or justify those programs as being open source or freely distributed programs obtained online... essentially the OpenOffice or Linux of programs.

Honestly, giving free reign on any and all chargen software like this, in my opinion, is not game-breaking. It seems really permissive, but it makes things a HELL of alot easier for a rigger (who has much, much more to buy in terms of software than a hacker does). If characters swap their programs, they're a team anyway, and I consider that a legitimate, natural part of the group dynamic.

I've run several campaigns using this rule, and to date I've never seen any problems with it. Mileages may vary, of course, I'm just stating what I've seen.
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Dashifen
post Mar 24 2008, 12:42 PM
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I pretty much allow it across the board without any specific restrictions. But, I do enforce a standard glitch house-rule for it: regular glitches reduce the rating of the program by 1 (if you glitch more than once in the test, you can reduce the rating more than once) representing bugs or other problems introduced into the code when you try to rip out the copy protection. If you critically glitch, the program is destroyed. And this goes for system/firewall cracking, too.

With that rule in place, I've not had one player try it. 'Course, that's probably due to the fact that I've only had one or two characters with a software skill so dice pools for the test have been on the order of Logic - 1 more often than not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 24 2008, 08:03 PM
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Huh, and still more and more people out there are allowing players to crack autosofts but not hacking programs. Very odd; I expected the opposite.

So, fewer people object to cracking the Clearsight off a Doberman and installing it on a car, than cracking your hacking programs off your commlink and backing them up on a datachip somewhere?
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GryMor
post Mar 24 2008, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 24 2008, 04:03 PM) *
Huh, and still more and more people out there are allowing players to crack autosofts but not hacking programs. Very odd; I expected the opposite.

So, fewer people object to cracking the Clearsight off a Doberman and installing it on a car, than cracking your hacking programs off your commlink and backing them up on a datachip somewhere?



The questions are different, read them again. The first set is pre-chargen and applies to hacking programs. The second set is in general and applies to autosofts and pilots. I bet that if you added a third set that was about pre-chargen cracking of autosofts and pilots, you would get similar rates to the pre-chargen hacking program questions, but, as written, this poll doesn't ask that.

P.S. In my mind, the built in autosofts are a game mechanics to represent specialised hardware support or innate capabilities of that drone types pilot software, so you can't (and don't need too) crack them separate from cracking the pilot (which itself, isn't useful for other drone types).
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 24 2008, 08:34 PM
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Ah, I knew I was forgetting something. Oh well; still very interesting results.
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Nightwalker450
post Mar 24 2008, 09:28 PM
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Ahh.. I didn't notice the first question was referring to pre-chargen (though neither did the poster evidently).


I want to change my vote! Put me down for no cracking pre-chargen!
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 24 2008, 10:09 PM
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heh. The thing I was unaware of was how the second question was *not* about pre-chargen; these were all supposed to be pre-chargen questions.

But this is a better poll, I think. It actually covers both sides of the chargen debate.
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BishopMcQ
post Mar 24 2008, 10:17 PM
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No to all of the above, pre-chargen. Unless I am having the team be advanced beyond starting runners, all cracking etc happens in games.

Pilot programs I classify as per skill--a pilot program for a walker drone will work in any walker. I treat autosofts similarly.

Hacking programs I use the same rule as Dash for diminishing rating based on glitches.
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Dashifen
post Mar 24 2008, 11:11 PM
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I'd allow it at character gen. I allow people to buy custom commlinks and I'd let people modifiy vehicles and weapons at character generation, if the hacker wants to hack their programs, I'd let them with my above caveats.
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Method
post Mar 25 2008, 02:17 AM
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QUOTE (Abschalten @ Mar 24 2008, 12:24 AM) *
I consider any and all software bought pre-chargen to be pre-cracked --
This gave me an interesting idea- couldn't non-pirated (i.e. legitimate) software require activation/registration? That could require a SIN and any registered software you used could become a part of your data trail...

If thats not a reason to crack everything, I don't know what is.
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 25 2008, 02:31 AM
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Heh, that's what I was always assuming, and why I am mystified at all the people not allowing programs to be cracked.

I mean, good Lord, if copy restrictions and DRM are as bad as they are now, just imagine what they'll be like when corps really *do* run the world...
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WearzManySkins
post Mar 25 2008, 02:35 AM
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It is not that bad today, the cracking gangs, compete to see who can break the protections first, including DRMs.

In 2070, much easier.

WMS
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Method
post Mar 25 2008, 03:00 AM
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In 2070 the corps can arrest you themselves for pirating software... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Cadmus
post Mar 25 2008, 03:24 AM
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All in all I don't see why people would not allow it. its not any were near game breaking. and it helps char's like riggers. and more importantly. we are roleplaying crooks,hoods,thugs,mercs,hitmen what ever you want to call runners. Given the fact that many char's might be just as liable to walk into a store put a gun int he clerks face and say. I need one of those two of those and three of those. and then burn the place to the ground on the way out. cracking the software seems a rather small thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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Tzitzimine
post Mar 25 2008, 04:13 AM
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I don't allow it. The value although stated in nuyen, represents the "cost" of the software. Be it purchased with cold hard cred or purchased through sweat of brow and time spent cracking. For a starting character who chooses to have contacts in a cracking gang, sure, we can work something out on the side.
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BishopMcQ
post Mar 25 2008, 04:17 AM
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I have no problem with player's making the rolls the first ten minutes of the game while everyone else is straightening out their stuff, I just don't give carte blanche authority for actions during char gen. Just as I don't let alchemists and enchanters make their own foci or deckers in SR3 build a custom deck. (Admittedly in SR4 this is less of an issue)

If a player wants to rob a store, that's fine. I'm a big proponent of player motivated runs--mages have cleaned out competing talismongers, a group even broke into Fairlight to steal three Excaliburs. I like these activities happening in game as it can create a bond between characters and give players a sense of thrill and excitement. YMMV.
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MaxHunter
post Mar 25 2008, 04:21 AM
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I kind of did not read a little part of the post wording.... I do not allow any cracking during chargen.

In game, almost anything goes, still I do restrict pilots and autosofts to similar vehicles...

Cheers,

Max
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 25 2008, 03:51 PM
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So, since so many of you don't allow cracking to be done pre-chargen, what do you set the Thresholds at for copying programs? The book, like so many things in SR4, leaves it up to GM discretion. So, what do you usually discress?
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