Longarms vs. Automatics?, Why two skills? Options

[Critias]

Meanwhile, it doesn't take a whole lot of extensive training to just hold the trigger and hose down an area, you're bound to eventually hit what you're shooting at.

You'd think so, but it doesn't really tend to play out that way. Just take a look at, for a cinematic portrayal, Blackhawk Down. Plenty of baddies used the good old Kalishnikov "spray and pray," plenty of guys in camo used double taps, and one side ended up with a kill ratio somewhere close to fifty to one (in favor of those who took the time to aim). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My favorite "skill grouping" for firearms (and yes, I think it's come up before just, once or twice around here) was from the CP:2020 Hardwired supplement. They had Sidearms, Long Arms, and Automatic Fire. If you were using a weapon one handed (from a hold-out pistol to an uzi), you used Sidearms. If you were firing the weapon with both hands (whether sniper rifle, uzi with the stock out and shouldered properly, or anything in between), you used Long Arms. If you were firing whatever the weapon was using autofire/burst fire type rules, you used Automatics (whether it was a machine pistol, a submachinegun, or suppressive fire from a tripod-mounted HMG).

I always liked it. *shrugs*

[Shrike30]

That's basically where I got my houserule. Works fine.

[Synner667]

Hell, one could say similar for Blades and Clubs...they're objects you put in your hand and hit people with. Slightly different, yes, but if you have great skill at using a blade shouldn't there be some kind of defaulting to skills inside of the same skill group? Maybe I'm just missing the old skill tree...or maybe I'm missing an entire section of the skills chapter wherein they discuss this...

Using Blades and Clubs is very different, as they each cover a range of weapons.

Most swords, etc are not used in a bashing manner, whereas truncheons, etc are [although broadswords, etc are actually bashing weapons]..
..Ergo, they would be part of separate skills sets - unless you just roll them all into the same extremely vaguely named skill, such as 'Melee Weapons'.

[counterveil]

Agreed Synner...there are just those odd weapons (broadsword) that seem to go either way. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to what you're comfortable with. I almost feel bad starting this post, because now that all the ideas have been put forth as to how to customize one's own skill groups and what active skills are contained therein, I'm considering just going with canon to make things easier and not confuse my players. Urgh.

[nathanross]

Using Blades and Clubs is very different, as they each cover a range of weapons.

Most swords, etc are not used in a bashing manner, whereas truncheons, etc are [although broadswords, etc are actually bashing weapons]..
..Ergo, they would be part of separate skills sets - unless you just roll them all into the same extremely vaguely named skill, such as 'Melee Weapons'.

This is very true. Blades are different from clubs, however, blades are just as different from each other as they are from clubs. A long sword (or broadsword) is wielded very differently from a Foil or Epee. And those are done differently from a Sabre or Rapier. Knives are also wielded very differently from Axes.

In the end, it is all about game balance. I am perfectly fine with changing weapon catagories to:

Firearms Group
Handguns (Pistols, small SMGs)
Longarms (Rifles [including assault], Shotguns, Larger SMGs)
Heavy Weapons (prone, or mounted firing)

Melee Group
Unarmed
Small arms (Reach 0-1) <-Could limit Small arms to Reach 0 and create new skill Medium arms for Reach 1 if this seems to broad.
Pole arms (Reach 2)

EDIT - Or you can allow defaulting to similar skill (still with -1 DP, though -2 DP may be more appropriate)
example: Blades DP7 (Agility 4 + Blades 3) and no club skill (DP 3). If you default to Blades, you have DP5-6 (GM pick) for Clubs. Better than RAW defaulting I feel, but still may need work.

[Critias]

Agreed Synner...there are just those odd weapons (broadsword) that seem to go either way. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to what you're comfortable with. I almost feel bad starting this post, because now that all the ideas have been put forth as to how to customize one's own skill groups and what active skills are contained therein, I'm considering just going with canon to make things easier and not confuse my players. Urgh.

Oh, don't feel bad on our account. If there's one thing we love to do here at Dumpshock, it's bitch about weapons and stuff.

[Synner667]

Chaps..
..Try to refer to me as Synner667, as there is a completely different person with the handle of Synner - and I don't want people to get us mixed up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yah, you're right about the different bladed weapons - but I was just using a simple example.

Bitching ??
We don't bitch.
We discuss (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fortune]

You must be new! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Chrysalis]

I was thinking on having a skill that adds on to existing weapon skills. It costs near nothing is limited to a specific model of weapon and only confers a bonus of 1.

So you can take M-2 training. So you can have machinegun 4 and +1 when firing the M-2.

Same way with knives or clubs. Gain +1 for using a kukri or night stick.

Same way with improvised weapons. Gain +1 for using a shank or chair.

I would say that would be the degree. While you can say to be trained with a left handed assassin's blade with a chip in its tip and "hernandez" etched on the blade, that is a more trademark feature of the character than actually a fighting method where one specialises in one weapon.

[Critias]

So just a further specialized specialization (a la SR3), then? *shrugs* Go for it, I guess.