Mana Static, Rules Interpretation help Options

[IC-Pick]

Ok... here is the situation. In a very huge firefight, between terrorists and hapless cruiseship patrons. My conjurer has about 5 bound and 1 summoned spirits out, ranging from rating 5-7. An opposing spirit (of man level 7) casts Mana Static at rating 6 (permanent spell raising the background count) Needless to say, all of my spirits except for the one I sent into hand to hand, and the level 7 go 'bloop' back to their metaplanes for the rest of the month. I was dumbfounded, as not much suprises me anymore, having played since 1st edition.

When does the background count bump happen? After rereading it, I think that I definitely have absolutely no idea. It sounds like it happens immediately.

Does the count ramp up?
Does it come out full force and then hold when it is permanent?
Does it take the casting time to build it up and then take effect at the force when it is done?

It sounds like it could be an extremely devastating spell when dealing with spirits or mages... or hell why not keep casting it and make a nice spirit free tunnel into a hive.... It just can't be that pwning.... can it?

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

That scenario is a bit iffy to me, at least - there isn't an aspected version of mana static (the one listed in the table in the back is apparently an errata) so the spirit casts mana static, which immediately lowers that same spirit's force by hits (up to force) meaning the spirit is going to take a very nasty drain hit, at the least - since its stats are immediately lowered. (Amazingly lucky to have gotten the 6 hits he needed to make that spell maximally effective, too!) So anybody could knock out that spirit before the spell was permanent...force 1 spirits aren't noted for their toughness.

Does it come out full force and then hold when it is permanent?

The description of permanent spell duration on p. 195 in the main book seems to support that:

Permanent spells must be sustained for a short time, after which their effects become “natural� and no longer require magic or concentration to maintain. The time required to make a spell’s effects permanent is equal to twice the Drain Value in Combat Turns.

although some GMs would defintely rule that nothing happens until the spell is made permanent - for instance, the ignite spell specifically says that the targetted object does not catch fire until after the spell is permanent.

As for why anyone wouldn't cast it over and over again...well: no aspected version of it - so they also need to be an initiate with the geomancy metamagic, and months to spend aspecting the background count to their favor. And since it's unaspected, casting it after they've gone through the geomantic rituals would counteract their efforts.

[Jaid]

As for why anyone wouldn't cast it over and over again...well: no aspected version of it - so they also need to be an initiate with the geomancy metamagic, and months to spend aspecting the background count to their favor. And since it's unaspected, casting it after they've gone through the geomantic rituals would counteract their efforts.

once permanent, the spell starts diminishing in power actually.

something like 1 point of background count per hour.

so you couldn't even ever aspect it.

[Cthulhudreams]

But it is a *great* spell. To quote franktrollman it is a one shot nut punch to almost any magical threat. Sure you're not doing anything else afterwards either, but completely incapacitating that mage (which is what he is if he is standing in a R4 background count unless he has magic 7) is often worth it.

[Jaid]

But it is a *great* spell. To quote franktrollman it is a one shot nut punch to almost any magical threat. Sure you're not doing anything else afterwards either, but completely incapacitating that mage (which is what he is if he is standing in a R4 background count unless he has magic 7) is often worth it.

absolutely, no question of that. it's just not a 'create your own aspected domain for 5 karma' kind of great spell =P

[Whipstitch]

I'm not sure I consider Heal to be a better spell than Mana Static.

There. I said it.

[Dashifen]

True, but try healing your team mate when the opposing mage got Mana Static up before you got him.....

[Cthulhudreams]

absolutely, no question of that. it's just not a 'create your own aspected domain for 5 karma' kind of great spell =P

oh no, hence the 'but' at the start of that quote. I'm not sure i'd agree with Whipstitch either, but I'd never make a mage without both heal and mana static.

[Whipstitch]

...My post was meant to be interpreted as saying that I believe Mana Static just might be better than Heal, which is noteworthy since you could make a strong argument that Heal is the best spell in the game.

[Dashifen]

oh no, hence the 'but' at the start of that quote. I'm not sure i'd agree with Whipstitch either, but I'd never make a mage without both heal and mana static.

Throw on Interference and you can screw up both magic and wireless (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ryu]

If you can pull it off, yes. Beware of the background count.

[IC-Pick]

So anybody could knock out that spirit before the spell was permanent...force 1 spirits aren't noted for their toughness.

If the spirit drops to 1 (which it did) and then I disrupt it (which I did) all of my other spirits are already gone, even if it wasn't sustained to permanent. Even if it isn't aspected, by taking out so many spirits, and then dropping it 2nd round....

[kzt]

Yep, it's nasty. I never realized how nasty it was until Whipstitch evicted a whole room full of spirits with it in one action. And unlike manaball, you can't accidentally kill your friends or yourself when you use it.

[Whipstitch]

Spirit slayin' is kinda my thing in SR4. Which is why I generally mock possession traditions. The way I design and play mages, going dual natured is kinda like signing your own death warrant.


Well, unless you're a gorgon.


Man, I hate dracoforms.

[Cthulhudreams]

...My post was meant to be interpreted as saying that I believe Mana Static just might be better than Heal, which is noteworthy since you could make a strong argument that Heal is the best spell in the game.

Sorry yeah, my first sentence was directed at Jaid. I agree with you that Mana Static is right up there with heal in terms of power, but I do not think it is better.

[DTFarstar]

Spirit slayin' is kinda my thing in SR4. Which is why I generally mock possession traditions. The way I design and play mages, going dual natured is kinda like signing your own death warrant.


Well, unless you're a gorgon.


Man, I hate dracoforms.

That sounds like an interesting story.

Chris

[Tarantula]

Ok... here is the situation. In a very huge firefight, between terrorists and hapless cruiseship patrons. My conjurer has about 5 bound and 1 summoned spirits out, ranging from rating 5-7. An opposing spirit (of man level 7) casts Mana Static at rating 6 (permanent spell raising the background count) Needless to say, all of my spirits except for the one I sent into hand to hand, and the level 7 go 'bloop' back to their metaplanes for the rest of the month. I was dumbfounded, as not much suprises me anymore, having played since 1st edition.

When does the background count bump happen? After rereading it, I think that I definitely have absolutely no idea. It sounds like it happens immediately.

Does the count ramp up?
Does it come out full force and then hold when it is permanent?
Does it take the casting time to build it up and then take effect at the force when it is done?

It sounds like it could be an extremely devastating spell when dealing with spirits or mages... or hell why not keep casting it and make a nice spirit free tunnel into a hive.... It just can't be that pwning.... can it?

Firstly, thats one lucky spirit of man. Force 7, casts mana static at rating 6... so thats 7 dice + 7 magic = 14 dice to cast it... average is 4 2/3rd successes. Not exactly great. Now, depending on where he cast the spell, decides what all is in the area of effect. (It is an area spell). I highly doubt that all 6 of your spirits were just hanging out inside a 6 meter sphere. (I think this is where you went wrong here).

Assuming they all were, then most of your spirits poof, and his drops to force 1. His has to sustain the spell until its permanent, so hes at -2 to all activities (effectively rendering him unable to make any tests besides damage resistance). Now he has to take the drain. SM, 118, says that the absolute value of background count is added to the force in terms of drain. (Since the order of spellcasting resistance is #5: determine effect, then #6 resist drain, the background count happens first, then the drain). So, force 6 + |6| background count, = 12. His spirit gets whatever his drain is (but mental attributes are all force, so its just forcex2, in this case, it is 2.) So, spirit of man drops to force 1, then eats his drain. Drain is force / 2 + 4. That makes it 10. Since he has 2 dice, he probably won't resist any of it. Since its stun, and his will is 2, that gives him 9 boxes of stun, and he is disrupted by the drain on his spell.


As to your questions:
Come out full force then hold when permanent? Yes, exactly how it works. Degrades at a rate of 1 per hour though.

Lastly, you didn't mention counterspelling at all. I'm curious to why your mage wouldn't be counterspelling your spirits, and as such, any hits would reduce hits that the spirit of man got, reducing the power of the static. Even if you only got 2 hits (not all together unreasonable for counterspelling) then it would drop to a force 4 mana static spell, and all your spirits would survive... of course, so would his.

[kzt]

Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Luckily we had this hovertank handy....

[Whipstitch]

If it wasn't for the hojillion body, mystic armor, summoning capability and his 10 or 11P base DV I totally would have taken him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Cthulhudreams]

The hovertank was lucky to savage the day too. Damn I want to restart that game. Should I try and coerce everyone into it?

[Serial_Peacemake...]

Being the DM in that case I'm fairly sure I read Mana Static right, and it is indeed a wonderful spell to level the playing field against spirits and all magical characters. I should also note it was first spell IC-Pick learned after he got out of the cruise from hell.

[kzt]

The hovertank was lucky to savage the day too. Damn I want to restart that game. Should I try and coerce everyone into it?

I'm willing to give it a shot.

[DTFarstar]

You can counterspell Mana Static? I mean, the spell is generating a background count, not altering the spirits in any way. You wouldn't get to counterspell it if you walked into it after it was permanent, why would you be able to when it was cast?

Chris

[Fortune]

Because it's a spell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[IC-Pick]

Being the DM in that case I'm fairly sure I read Mana Static right, and it is indeed a wonderful spell to level the playing field against spirits and all magical characters. I should also note it was first spell IC-Pick learned after he got out of the cruise from hell.

Yea.... it is true... the first thing I learned.

2 of my spirits were not next to me. I had just come through a door into an existing fight and hadn't had time to spread out. The Counterspell wouldnt have worked as far as I know, given that they werent the target of the spell, and the fact that it never went permanent is irrelevant as the disruption of the spirits is the main idea here. That spirit of man (which was a spirit stolen from a security mage ala banishing and resummoning) was a throwaway.