DeLeon's Dream, A New Spell for Mages Options

[Tzitzimine]

DeLeon's Dream (Health)
Type: P • Range: T • Duration: P • DV: (F/2)

DeLeon's Dream restores the recipients youth.

Type
Physcial: +1
Range:
Touch: -2
Restricted Target: -1 (Voluntary Only)
Duration
Permanent: +2 (? May not apply ?)
Effect
None
Health
None

Having checked the Limits of Sorcery I don't see anything that specifically rejects this spell. A few questions I would ask would are:

If aging is considered "damage" on a cellular level wouldn't this be treated like heal?
How much "healing" would the spell do? A year? A week?
Is your current age it's "natural" state?
If 'No', what about 'healing' the damage from your environment that caused aging? Smoking, Sun exposure, etc...

As a GM, I guess I wouldn't be opposed to a mage coming up with this spell. But I'm pretty sure I'd want to take the nerf bat to it. Leonization has a lot of limiting factors I would think that for the sake of mechanics this spell should be at least in the same ball park. Any one else have any ideas/opinions?

[Jaid]

i wouldn't allow this spell to be permanent. also, i would have to say it definitely has an effect, so the 'effect: none' isn't entirely accurate.

in any case, this is a spell where if they want it permanent, they're gonna have to pay for karma imo. additionally, each hit should only remove a certain amount of time... probably not a terribly large amount of time, at that (something like 1 year?).

you don't want to cheapen immortality so much that it's easily available to anyone who knows a little magic, do you? =P

[Tzitzimine]

Well, I hadn't intended the spell to be "easily" created. Something this potentially unbalanced could be detrimental to a game and so perhaps it could be a long term goal for a PC mage or something. Kinda like working towards retirement because once you get this spell figured out, the nuyen would be rolling in. But I wanted to get some peoples take on exactly how they would change it from the above. Like the karma idea you mention.

[Fortune]

Well, if I were ever to allow this kind of spell, I know that the Drain Code would be way higher than F/2. I would start at something like F/2+3 and work upwards from there.

[BishopMcQ]

I'd say to function more as an alchemical or unique enchantment rather than a spell. That way the treatments represent a much larger investment of time and energy. Additionally, you can have the formula require an exotic component--blood freely given from a regenerating creature, the inhaled breath of an Immortal being, etc.

[tisoz]

I had a spell similar to this during 3rd edition called Transfer Youth. The caster could trade aging with other targets, gaining or losing age. Days, weeks, months, years were related to drain levels, and successes determined how many units of time were transferred.

[BishopMcQ]

Tisoz--Out of curiousity, with your version, if you used Blood Magic, could the victim for the sacrifice also take/gain the years? It'd be a classic villain type for killing some young talented person, take their hopes, dreams and youth into yourself and kill them all in one go. Mage gains the benefits of youth and the victim pays the price.

[KCKitsune]

I would make the Drain (F/2 + 5) and I would say that each hit allows you to remove a week's worth of aging. This isn't a terrible game breaking spell. I mean it only de-ages you. Not like it restores Essence or any such "uber" magic (de-aging is NICE, but not too super).

[Eyeless Blond]

Rather than making it Permanent, I'd rule this can only be Sustained. Thus, to make it Permanent you'd have to Quicken it, with all the drawbacks that entails. Also, it'd only remove Magic*net hits in years from the subject, rather than just arbitrarily rolling back to a certain age, that way you'll need to case ever-increasing Force spells on yourself, by ever-more powerful wizards (or spend all your time initiating).

And if some wise guy ever disrupts your Quickened spell, well. Remember that scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

[KCKitsune]

Rather than making it Permanent, I'd rule this can only be Sustained. Thus, to make it Permanent you'd have to Quicken it, with all the drawbacks that entails.

Then why even use it? Leonization may be expensive, but it's permanent and now doesn't cost any Essence. I say let it be permanent, it's not a game breaking spell... Hell it's a spell that most likely only be learned for fluff reasons. Shadowrunners don't get old, they get shot... a lot... usually with assault cannons or something just as nasty.

[Drogos]

But with the fluff it would make Leonization pointless. And I see no limit on it, so why wouldn't Damian Knight live forever. There really would be no reason to go to Z-O.

[KCKitsune]

What is Z-O?

[Drogos]

Zuric-Orbital, the space station owned by the Corporate Court that the old and powerful fly up to to retire when the Leonization treatments don't help anymore and they've made so many powerful enemies they have to be worried about EVERYTHING potentially killing them.

There is other information on Z-O, but it is unrelated to this topic, so I'll save it for another if you wish to know more.

[Malicant]

Then why even use it? Leonization may be expensive, but it's permanent and now doesn't cost any Essence. I say let it be permanent, it's not a game breaking spell... Hell it's a spell that most likely only be learned for fluff reasons. Shadowrunners don't get old, they get shot... a lot... usually with assault cannons or something just as nasty.

The spell is not game breaking, but it is world breaking. Bad idea.

Becoming immortal by magic is difficult at best. At the current Mana level in SR it should not even be possible to think of something like that. Breaks consitency a lot if you look at IEs and maybe even Earthdawn, which had only one immortality spell that was insanely difficult to cast and maintain and if maintenence failed all the years skipped came back to bite you in the bottom.

[Kyrn]

The spell is not game breaking, but it is world breaking. Bad idea.

Becoming immortal by magic is difficult at best. At the current Mana level in SR it should not even be possible to think of something like that. Breaks consitency a lot if you look at IEs and maybe even Earthdawn, which had only one immortality spell that was insanely difficult to cast and maintain and if maintenence failed all the years skipped came back to bite you in the bottom.

Seconded. With this spell in hand no character need run the shadows, as he's in possession of a spell the effects of which at least 10% of the world's population would kill to attain.
Seriously, what the hell makes you think that immortality is a viable spell effect? The absence of its specific exclusion?
As Bishop McQ pointed out, the only way I would think about adding this to your world would be through a unique enchanting process that creates a focus giving the attuned party Immunity to Age. I would then blow up that focus.

[Drogos]

Yeah, it's just easier to become a Vampire (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Kyrn]

But that just ruins Spring Break.

[Particle_Beam]

As per the rules for creating spells, everything is possible, even time manipulation and teleportation. But the game designers rolled a critical hit and decided that time manipulation and teleportation powers shouldn't exist in the official game. Per the rules, in our playgroup, my character also has a cosmetic chirurgy-spell that is permanent. I don't like it personaly, but for our campaign, it's essential to have it, so we handwave the existence of that spell as being not inmitable safe for a selected few. But I wouldn't advise it to let it exist in other campaigns, as it makes all mask-illusion spells worthless, for example.
If in your group you're comfortable with that eternal youth-spell, then you can do it. But as for the official Shadowrun-game, such spells don't exist, the same as permanent bio-mod-spells who can shapechange your gender if needed without any sustaining karma costs shouldn't exist either, or the expllicitely stated time manipulation/teleportation effects.

[KCKitsune]

Well, a teleportation spell would be a game breaking spell. You run in, get the paydata, and then teleport out. That would break the game.

@Drogos: Leonization use to have a limit on how many times it worked. It also cost Essence to to have it done. Now it's just a 400,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) treatment and that's it. No limit, no Essence cost, just "Pay here Mr. Drogos, and we'll get you back to being 21 in no time!"

[Eyeless Blond]

Yes, but there's still a nuyen cost to it. This spell, as written, is scott free.

The better way to do it, IMO, is by forcing you to pay in karma instead of cash. By canon the way to pay karma for a permanent spell is Quickening. So, make this a Sustained spell instead of Permanent, and have people pay in karma for a magical Leonization.

[KCKitsune]

Yes, but there's still a nuyen cost to it. This spell, as written, is scott free.

The better way to do it, IMO, is by forcing you to pay in karma instead of cash. By canon the way to pay karma for a permanent spell is Quickening. So, make this a Sustained spell instead of Permanent, and have people pay in karma for a magical Leonization.

I would say that you just have to pay Karma without it being a sustained spell... or better yet, just drop this idea of a spell because no one would use it. I'd rather spend the 400,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and know that I'm good for the next 30 years rather than think: "Can I cross that Ward? Will it kill me?" Totally pointless if crossing wards is a dangerous prospect.

[Eyeless Blond]

I would say that you just have to pay Karma without it being a sustained spell... or better yet, just drop this idea of a spell because no one would use it. I'd rather spend the 400,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and know that I'm good for the next 30 years rather than think: "Can I cross that Ward? Will it kill me?" Totally pointless if crossing wards is a dangerous prospect.

Given the fact that crossing other people's wards without permission will usually result in being attacked by the bound spirit on the other side, I don't see this as being of huge concern to most law-abiding citizens.

And as a sustained spell this would have other uses, aside from immortality. Sometimes temporarily turning yourself into a child/teenager/younger adult could be useful. As could an opposite effect, one that causes temporary aging.

[Tzitzimine]

Actually I never intended it to be used for immortality as that would break the "Laws of Magic" as stated in the book (along with teleportation, time stop, etc...). I was thinking more along the lines of a lifetime "elongating" spell. But I like a few of the ideas mentioned so far.

Seriously, what the hell makes you think that immortality is a viable spell effect? The absence of its specific exclusion?

[rhetorical] Kryn, are you always this abrasive? [/rhetorical]

[Cardul]

I like the idea of the spell..However, I really would change a few details:

First: it rolls back force*net hits in years, as opposed to the normal Force+Net hits. This is NOT limited to Leonizations 21 year old body. A REALLY good roll could make someone in an 18, 15, or, 5 year old body(downside 1)

Second: It is resisted by: the higher: Charisma, Body, or Essence, so it will also have a lower potential for net successes.

Third: Each time, the next time the spell is cast, it adds an automatic "1" to the results. On a Critical Glitch, the spell makes the subject age to death.(with the lesser odds of success from how it is resisted, this becomes downside 2). NOTE: This is per time, not per time for an individual mage.

Fourth: If a spell can have physical drain, this one should have it. Drain is applied before the spell becomes permanent, so, with a Drain of, say, Force/2 +5P, there IS the chance that a mage casting a Force 6, with a Body of only 3 could die before the spell becomes permanent.(downside 3)

Fifth: I personally think that, due to the three downsides above, that a) few would be willing to pay for it over leonization, and b) the mages that would do it might charge considerably more then Leonization.

There, no loner either game or world breaking.

[Malicant]

Virtual Immortality is as bad as true immortality. It will either change your entire game world or it will be lost in the pit of broken credibility.

If you want that, go for it, you're game and all. It's still a bad idea.

Seriously, the only ways to become immortal in SR right now are to become infected with HMHVV, become a free spirits spell formula or hidden life, and good old cybermancy. Notice a trend? All of it is on the dark side of morality or at least shady with drawbacks you cannot possibly understand before you do it.

And there is still the option of being born an immortal elf.

If there is a real, deep longing for magical leonization look at healthy glow and expand a little from there. A spell that halts aging for a very limited time (like a few weeks) and where those weeks come crashing back at you after the spell fades might be something that works quite fine in SR. Or something that removes the side effects of aging, like arthritis, for a short period (again a few weeks seem modest).

But having any of that spells can make you really, really rich if played right. Casting a force 1 life prolonging spell every week will make people virtually immortal. In a city like LA you'de have a huge consumer base. And that's the point where either the world or consitency break.