Availability Tests and Extra Spend Bonuses Options

[Sombranox]

This is possibly a stupid question, but I was just reading BBB 302 and the rules on rolling availability tests and a slight ambiguity sparked a debate between a friend and I about using the 25% increase per extra die to the Cha+Negotiation roll.

The actual text is:
"For every additional 25% of the item’s value, the
character gains an additional die on the Availability Test (maximum
10 extra dice). The character must declare her intention
to spend more before making the Availability Test."

My interpretation was that at any point before a given roll in the extended test, you can add 25% to the final cost to get an extra dice, up to 10 dice, and that bonus only lasts for that one roll, so if you have to go on, you can choose to add another up to 10 dice (for another 250% base cost added on) to the final cost for even more dice. This means that you could end up with some scary increase in price if you're pathetically unlucky, but it gives you the option of adding or not adding dice to given rolls (i.e. in the example in that section, the guy chose to add 8 dice on his third roll when he was wanting to get it faster.

My friend's interpretation was that at any point before a given roll, you can add up to 10 dice for 25% base per dice, but these dice persist until the extended success succeeds or fails. So the maximum cost increase is 250%, which you could choose to take at the first for 10 dice throughout the process, or you can decide to speed up the process (like the example) by taking the extra cost for dice bonus.

Since the example stops on the round he increases the cost by 200%, there's no real way to tell which way is the right one, so any of you rules gurus out there have any thoughts on this?

[jago668]

I always looked at it more like your friend. Say you want to buy a nifty new gun that is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 100. Then for every (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 25 extra you pay, you get an extra die. Up to 10 dice for an extra (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 250. So you really want it, real bad like. Then you cough up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 350.

[deek]

I also looked at it the way your friend is interpreting it.

[Dashifen]

I've always read it that you increase the price to increase your dice pool and that the dice pool bonuses don't get used up. That is if you increase the cost by 50%, you get two more dice and those dice can be used on that interval and all subsequent intervals of the extended test.

[cryptoknight]

Same here... if you're offering 50% more than market value... you get bonus dice for the item in question. You don't have to keep upping what you're willing to pay.

[Jhaiisiin]

As the others are mentioning it, your friend's interpretation is more correct.
It's easier to understand once broken down.

A person pays 25% more per additional die they want (max 10) - this part's pretty obvious, and we all seem to get this bit.
The above applies "on the Availability Test" - this is the key bit. The Availability Test is an extended test. You need not provide upkeep after you've added the bonus dice. You get the bonus dice for the test, which is potentially several rolls. Once the test is concluded, the dice vanish.

[Sombranox]

I guess my confusion comes from the fact that it says you have to declare your intentions to spend more before you make the Availability test, yet the example shows the guy deciding to throw more money at it three rolls in.

If it had been the case that before you roll anything, you decide you want to spend more and declare how much more, then get your bonus dice for the entire extended test, it would make sense to me. It just seems a little cheesy that you can start off paying 250% cost to get a major boost to your DP for all rolls in the extended test.

Then again, I didn't really like in my interpretation that you could possibly add on 250% and have a crappy roll that forces you to add another 250% and maybe another and so on.

No real big though if this is everyone's interpretations, I'll stick with the cheaper way of it.

[jago668]

Well think of it like this. You are looking for a classic muscle car in excellent condition. So you go to a company that deals in them. They don't have one, but they offer to find one for a fee. You know the car would run you say $100,000. So after a month of nothing, you tell them you are willing to pay $350,000. If after another month you haven't found one you don't have to pay an extra $250,000 to keep them looking. (Though this being real life you could always throw more money at it.)

The money you are paying for the extra dice is not a fee you are paying to the fixer. It is what you are offering over and above the going rate to the seller to get him to sell to you instead of Joe Schmuck that is only offering base price. In my games I don't cap the limit at 10 dice. If someone wants to pay 1,000% extra I let them.

[Nightwalker450]

I guess my confusion comes from the fact that it says you have to declare your intentions to spend more before you make the Availability test, yet the example shows the guy deciding to throw more money at it three rolls in.

If it had been the case that before you roll anything, you decide you want to spend more and declare how much more, then get your bonus dice for the entire extended test, it would make sense to me. It just seems a little cheesy that you can start off paying 250% cost to get a major boost to your DP for all rolls in the extended test.

Then again, I didn't really like in my interpretation that you could possibly add on 250% and have a crappy roll that forces you to add another 250% and maybe another and so on.

No real big though if this is everyone's interpretations, I'll stick with the cheaper way of it.

Its a matter of the person deciding that they can't wait any longer and adding more cash to the find. They don't get to redo their searching from before, because at that time they were offering a lower amount, but they will continue to get dice going into the future. Once you decide to increase your amount, you can't lower it (you would actually loose those previous rolls with the higher amount if you were able to).

[jago668]

Eh, if they wanted to lower it I would make them start over at the lower amount.

[Nightwalker450]

Eh, if they wanted to lower it I would make them start over at the lower amount.

Yeah, thats the way I'd usually do it to. I just offered a suggestion if they didn't want to start completely over, and they had rolls from a previously lower amount.

[Sombranox]

Yeah, thats the way I'd usually do it to. I just offered a suggestion if they didn't want to start completely over, and they had rolls from a previously lower amount.

So you would allow someone to do their first roll with no bonus dice, a second roll with the 10 extra (for 250%) and then if they were like 1 or 2 hits off, drop back down to the earlier lower cost to finish it off with their smaller dice pool (which still is enough to get 1 or 2 hits)?

Maybe I'm just abusive of rules like that, but I'd totally pump up the early tests with bonus dice, then drop back on the last few rolls to get it on the cheap.

[Nightwalker450]

So you would allow someone to do their first roll with no bonus dice, a second roll with the 10 extra (for 250%) and then if they were like 1 or 2 hits off, drop back down to the earlier lower cost to finish it off with their smaller dice pool (which still is enough to get 1 or 2 hits)?

Maybe I'm just abusive of rules like that, but I'd totally pump up the early tests with bonus dice, then drop back on the last few rolls to get it on the cheap.

Heh, that would be quite ridiculous.. But not what I meant, they'd loose all the hits they gained from the +250%, they would keep their first roll where they weren't offering any bonus though.

I still like that picture though, I'll give you 25,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for that item! Nevermind, but here's 10,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) now that you found it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[deek]

Looking over that example, I see the confusion. The example doesn't match the rules...as the availability test already started, therefore its not possible (per RAW) to add more money once you start rolling.

I don't like that though, so I would actually go with the example. You could start out unmodified and if you want to add money later, you could and get the bonus dice. But I wouldn't allow downgrading the bonus dice. Once you pay the extra money, every 25% increase will get you those bonus die for the remainder of the test.