My newest rules monstrosity, A arnis de mano swordfighter, Let me know if you see problems Options

[Tarantula]

Ok, heres the general idea for the build.... Infiltration/melee specialist. Emphasis on the melee. Counterattack specialist. Ready to slice and dice with just about anyone. He has 12/12 armor, unencumbered, all underneath his chameleon suit. His swords have chameleon modification on them, so they go along with the suit just fine. This gives him a hefty 18 dice pool for damage resistance, He has a meger 9DP for infiltration (11 if in an urban area), but with the -4 perception from the chameleon suit, I think he should be sufficient to get by most generic guards. No attributes below 3, so no glaring weak spot there. A couple simsense negative qualities, and a spirit bane should keep things interesting (and explains his generic crappy commlink and lack of computer skills). His initiative is pretty pathetic, (6) and no initiative enhancement. I'll explain why later. Hes got the main standpoints of skills covered. Combat skill (blades) stealth skill (infiltration), social skill (etiquette), and perception. Topped off his magic and gave him dual weapon foci to start with. The new armor stacking rules seem very wonky if any body 6 character can hit 12/12 without issue for quite cheap. (3800nuyen by my count).

Fighting idea is this. He'll draw the swords when he thinks combat is coming, since they're ruthenium polymer coated too, this doesn't actually hurt his stealth abilities in the least. He'll likely start the fights, so he'd start with a one sworded attack at 16 dice. (Leaving the other one to full parry as per two weapon style maneuver). Averaging 5 hits, he may or may not hit. If he does, he's at a base of 7P/-1AP, plus successes. So, assuming he was attacking a practice dummy or something, he could expect an average hit of 12P/-1AP. Pretty decent. Assuming he misses his first attack or something, and the guard pulls out a melee weapon of somekind, he gets to full parry with 21 dice (-4 to disarm) so 17 dice, (expecting 5 hits) and if successful, can disarm the guard, dealing his damage in the process (due to the arnis de mano advantage). (I'm gonna assume net hits increase damage here), but a base of 7P/-1AP hurts pretty good. Then, since he successfully parried, he ripostes giving up his second turn action to attack again (and utilizing his counterstrike power) and attacks at an impressive 22 dice, again with the 7P/-1AP damage. If he successfully hits the guard with that, he can give up his third turn action and finishing move to attack once more at 16 dice, again doing 7P/-1AP damage base. Lastly, should the guard (or the guards friends) live through all of that, he can repeat it the next round, choosing to full parry as an interrupt (giving up his 4th turns action, and disarm if the guard is armed), riposte (if the parry is successful) and finishing move (if the riposte successfully hits). Effectively giving him 3 melee attacks in one IP, without any initiative enhancement as long as the baddies keep swinging at him.

I would greatly appreciate any rules I've abused/broken/missed being pointed out to me, and would gladly discuss the ways maneuvers work/should work together.

[ Spoiler ]

Disarming Fighter
Armor: (12/12)
Melee Attacking Dice: 16 Dice one sword, 19 dice split double attack.
Ranged Defence: 9
Melee Defence: Unarmed: 9 Dice
Parry: 16 Dice (One sword)
18 Dice (Two swords)
Full Parry: 21 Dice (One sword can be done while attacking)
23 Dice (Two swords)



Dwarf 25

Qualities -5
Adept 5
Martial Arts (Arnis De Mano) 10
Damaging Disarm, +1 DV to Blades
Ambidextrous 5

Sensitive System -15
Simsense Vertigo -10

Attributes: 200
Bod:2 6 40
Agi:1 5 40
Rea:1 3 20
Str:3 6 30
Cha:1 3 20
Int:1 3 20
Log:1 3 20
Wil:2 3 10

Special Attributes: 85
Magic:1 6 65
Edge:1 3 20
Initiative:2 6

Skills: 66
Blades (Swords) 5 22
+2 weapon focus each, +1 grip each, +10 to hold on each, +1DV (style) each
Infiltration (Urban) 4 18
Perception (Visual) 3 14
Etiquette 3 12

Maneuvers: 8
Disarm Maneuver 2
Finishing Move 2
Riposte 2
Two Weapon Style Maneuver 2

Powers: 4
Combat Sense 6
Counterstrike 6
Weapon Foci Bonding 4

Contacts: 6
Fixer(2/2)
Swordsmith(1/1)

Gear: 11 55,000 Spent: 54,890
Weapons: 43,820
2xMonofilament Sword Weapon Foci (Force 2) 41,400
2x Chameleon Coating[2] 2000
2x Gecko Grip[1] 200
2x Personalized Grip[1] 200
2x Lanyard 20

Armor: (12/12) 9500
Chameleon Suit(6/4) 1200
Gel Packs(1/1) 1500
Thermal Dampening 6 3000
FFBA Full-Suit (6/2) 1600
Nonconductivity 6 1200
SecureTech PPP System
Forearm Guards(0/1) 200
Helmet(0/2) 100
Leg and Arm Casings(1/1) 350
Shin Guards(0/1) 150
Vitals Protector(1/1) 200

Commlink: 300
Meta Link 100
Vector Xim 200

Autopicker 5 1000
Chisel 20
Gecko Gloves 250

[Ryu]

Seems to work as a tech demo. For a real char I´d try to fit Athletics and Stealth as full groups (for Gymnastics(Jumping)/Climbing/Running and Disguise/Shadowing), and I´d personally pay by lowering magic to 5 (as always).

Warning: I´m not exactly a MA specialist. You might get in trouble using the Arnis-de-Mano DV bonus with blades larger than knifes. Ask the GM and all that.

[Larme]

Melee combat is always weaker than ranged combat. You have to get close, and once you do the enemy gets to defend with skill + attribute without having to go on full defense. It's great if you can surprise, but it's no better than surprising in ranged combat. In fact, it's worse, because ranged combat can generally kill two or more people per action phase. This character is powerful in melee, but he's not versatile enough to be worthwhile.

[samuelbeckett]

Melee combat is always weaker than ranged combat. You have to get close, and once you do the enemy gets to defend with skill + attribute without having to go on full defense. It's great if you can surprise, but it's no better than surprising in ranged combat. In fact, it's worse, because ranged combat can generally kill two or more people per action phase. This character is powerful in melee, but he's not versatile enough to be worthwhile.

Very true on the ranged vs. melee points, but a focused melee adept/dodge monkey can cause a ranged specialist a whole world of hurt if he gets close. Unless you are fighting another melee specialist, the fact that optimised melee combatants can get DVs up to the 10P to 13P range (and the fact that Impact armor values tend to be lower than Ballistic) means a single net hit is likely to cause extreme death. Add Finishing Move and even a heavily armored troll is going to likely be dead in a single action phase.

I do concur however, that an optimised ranged specialist > optimised melee specialist in situations where range is a factor.

[DMK]

Looks interesting. I will mention that you ripped yourself off on Special Attributes: Magic 1->6 only costs 65, not 75. (40 for 1->5, 25 for 1->6). Personally, I'd trade in 4 levels of Counterstrike for Improved Reflexes 1. An extra Initiative Pass trumps 4 extra attack dice that you only get if the guy swings at you anyday, imho. For example, Counterstrike won't help you if he pulls a sidearm and shoots at you.

[Roadspike]

Okay, so I'm not going to comment on the stats--others can do that better than me. I do, however, think that many GMs would have a problem with Ruthenium Polymer-coated swords. I mean, every time you cut something, or parry a blow, you've got a very good chance of tearing/cutting the polymers. And if you didn't tear them, I should think that they'd at very least remove the damage bonus from the swords being mono-filiment, since the ruthenium is now covering the mono-edge, and so it isn't as "hyper-sharp" as it previously was.

Then again, I don't have Arsenal or Augmentation yet, so I don't know if this is specifically allowed by canon.

[Odsh]

Okay, so I'm not going to comment on the stats--others can do that better than me. I do, however, think that many GMs would have a problem with Ruthenium Polymer-coated swords. I mean, every time you cut something, or parry a blow, you've got a very good chance of tearing/cutting the polymers. And if you didn't tear them, I should think that they'd at very least remove the damage bonus from the swords being mono-filiment, since the ruthenium is now covering the mono-edge, and so it isn't as "hyper-sharp" as it previously was.

I'm one of those GMs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[WearzManySkins]

Well the katanas like those in my games not allowed
1. Monofilament Weapon focuses were discussed in Enchanting Thread last year, not allowed.
2. Ruthenium Polymer-coated swords I have issue with as a GM. Not allowed.

Any character with a more than 8 dice for the perception, or ultrawide band radar, etc will "see" you adept.

WMS

[Nightwalker450]

I think the multiple IP drawing has been covered enough. Since we can't get an "official" ruling on it yet, to each their own. But the combat wouldn't work that way in my group. If you don't want to spend the adept point for another initiative though, I recommend carrying doses of Jazz so that you don't have to rely on the skewed view of interrupts to be useful.

[Tarantula]

Okay, so I'm not going to comment on the stats--others can do that better than me. I do, however, think that many GMs would have a problem with Ruthenium Polymer-coated swords. I mean, every time you cut something, or parry a blow, you've got a very good chance of tearing/cutting the polymers. And if you didn't tear them, I should think that they'd at very least remove the damage bonus from the swords being mono-filiment, since the ruthenium is now covering the mono-edge, and so it isn't as "hyper-sharp" as it previously was.

Then again, I don't have Arsenal or Augmentation yet, so I don't know if this is specifically allowed by canon.

If you have an issue with the monofilament swords, make them katanas. I just get very very tired of the "katanas are better than real swords cause they're awesome!" stats.

Well the katanas like those in my games not allowed
1. Monofilament Weapon focuses were discussed in Enchanting Thread last year, not allowed.
2. Ruthenium Polymer-coated swords I have issue with as a GM. Not allowed.

Any character with a more than 8 dice for the perception, or ultrawide band radar, etc will "see" you adept.

WMS

1. Again, if you don't like monofilament foci, I'll just make them katanas instead. Big whoop.
2. Why do you have an issue with ruth polymer coated swords, but not ruth polymer coated armor that will get shot?

[Shadow]

You can't duel wield katanas, they are two handed weapons.

generally armor is not coated, a cloak is, as any uncoated spot will stick out like a soar thumb. I don't think you can coat swords with it, I belive it is just clothes, have to check the RAW.

[Shadow]

Ruthenium Polymer Coating: This modification can only be added to armor or clothing that covers the wearer’s whole body, like full body armors or suits.

I think that pretty clearly says no to weapons.

[ArkonC]

Chameleon Coating: A coating of ruthenium polymers is added to weapon. A character wearing a chameleon suit and carrying a weapon larger than pistol size needs this modification to receive the full bonus of the chameleon suit (otherwise it's reduced to -2). This modification applies a -4 Concealability modifier.

[Larme]

Okay, so I'm not going to comment on the stats--others can do that better than me. I do, however, think that many GMs would have a problem with Ruthenium Polymer-coated swords. I mean, every time you cut something, or parry a blow, you've got a very good chance of tearing/cutting the polymers. And if you didn't tear them, I should think that they'd at very least remove the damage bonus from the swords being mono-filiment, since the ruthenium is now covering the mono-edge, and so it isn't as "hyper-sharp" as it previously was.

Then again, I don't have Arsenal or Augmentation yet, so I don't know if this is specifically allowed by canon.

As I recall from M&M, ruthineum is a coating only a few molecules thick. It doesn't tear like cloth; it takes something serious to damage it. If the sword isn't damaged, I'd imagine that the ruth isn't either. Now, you could definitely get blood on the ruthineum, and THAT would make the swords a lot more visible.

I didn't look at the character closely and I didn't notice just one IP... A combat character can't have just 1 IP. One with a lot (more than this character has) of stealth dice might be able to get away with ninja strikes, jumping out, using a monofilament garotte, and melting back into the shadows. But once you start swinging swords around the game is up, and now you're stuck effectively moving in slow motion against your wired up opponents.

[WearzManySkins]

@Tarantula
Why even bother with chameleon or Ruthenium, this characters infiltration skill is too weak, even with the minus dice he would be getting, he will still get "seen" by alot of npcs.

With his current infiltration skill he will not be attacking unseen alot.

WMS

[Spike]

As a GM I'd definitely disallow the ruthenium on the blades... sheathed? Certainly. Armor is fine. Once you get shot, however, its usefulness will seriously start degrading unless you are a dodge monkey.

Now: You could make an arguement that the swords can be successfully coated. Then I'd make the counter arguement that just about every god damn time you use it you'll be jacking up the damn coating and need to have it redone. It would be impossible to keep a good edge on them without screwing up the polymers, so you'd have to take a penalty to either the stealth value OR the damade/ap of the sword. In other words to damn much monkeying with the system to make it worthwhile. Besides, if you're doing this for ninja-strikes, just get behind them before you draw. I'm pretty sure that you can see a large dude right in front of your face even if he's polymered to hell and back just from the distortion... it ain't invisibility after all.

But then, I'm no expert. Ignore me, I never said a thing... whatever.

[Jaid]

wait a minute... why aren't you using vibroswords? =D

reach 1 so they can be dual-wielded, damage is str/2 + 4... equal to a combat axe!

also, i'd boost his strength, personally. make it a troll, toss some kind of enhancement to strength in there (drugs, if nothing else) and you should 1-shot pretty much everything.

also, while you're at it... mix styles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) you can get better than +1 DV to blades if you choose multiple styles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[edit]hmmm... spike brings up a valid point =S

just for your reference, folks, multiquote works across threads =S [/edit]

This post has been edited by Jaid: Mar 27 2008, 09:08 PM

[Spike]

Jaid: I KNOW that quoted post has nothing to do with this thread....


just sayin'...

[Ryu]

just for your reference, folks, multiquote works across threads =S [/edit]

Many bothans died to bring us that information. Thanks Jaid!

[Rasumichin]

As a GM I'd definitely disallow the ruthenium on the blades... sheathed? Certainly. Armor is fine. Once you get shot, however, its usefulness will seriously start degrading unless you are a dodge monkey.

Now: You could make an arguement that the swords can be successfully coated.

Yes, as the there's a weapon modification option for ruthenium coated weapons that does not exclude melee weapons, i could make that argument.
Also, please note that your whole argumentation is based on completely unsupported and speculative assumptions about a fictional technology.
Good luck disproving any of this without earning the title asshat GM.

Same goes for arguing against monofilament foci, as they are specifically given as an example in the errata.

I don't get the fuss about goddam melee weapons anyway.
I mean, there's people running around with semi-automatic rocket launchers, high-force spirits, CHA-based dicepools in the high 20s or drones packing friggin' Barret-121s modified for full-auto and you care about a pair of swords?

[Moon-Hawk]

Yes, as the there's a weapon modification option for ruthenium coated weapons that does not exclude melee weapons, i could make that argument.
Also, please note that your whole argumentation is based on completely unsupported and speculative assumptions about a fictional technology.
Good luck disproving any of this without earning the title asshat GM.

Same goes for arguing against monofilament foci, as they are specifically given as an example in the errata.

I don't get the fuss about goddam melee weapons anyway.
I mean, there's people running around with semi-automatic rocket launchers, high-force spirits, CHA-based dicepools in the high 20s or drones packing friggin' Barret-121s modified for full-auto and you care about a pair of swords?

Haha. First, take a deep breath. Second, I agree. Third, ruining the ruthenuim coating on a melee weapon sounds like a really good glitch effect to me.

[Ryu]

And yeah, I would not exclude bladed weapons from being ruthenium coated. Logic has harder sacrifices to do in the name of fun.

[Rasumichin]

Haha. First, take a deep breath. Second, I agree. Third, ruining the ruthenuim coating on a melee weapon sounds like a really good glitch effect to me.

After taking a deep breath, i completely agree on the glitch effect idea.
For the sake of fairness, i'd make it a critical glitch effect in this case, though- as recoating the weapon (or even the ruining of the coating itself?) would also destroy the focus' enchantment.
Losing a piece of equipment as expensive as this qualifies as "critical glitch level hurtful" in my book.

But then, GM sadism varies from group tp group. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Moon-Hawk]

After taking a deep breath, i completely agree on the glitch effect idea.
For the sake of fairness, i'd make it a critical glitch effect in this case, though- as recoating the weapon (or even the ruining of the coating itself?) would also destroy the focus' enchantment.
Losing a piece of equipment as expensive as this qualifies as "critical glitch level hurtful" in my book.

But then, GM sadism varies from group tp group. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Hmmm, that is more sadistic than I intended. I agree, that would be overly hurtful. Were I the GM, I would keep it a glitch effect but allow the rutheium coating to be repaired without destroying the focus. I would prefer to do it that way as opposed to the critical glitch/destroyed focus method, because having the cloaking on the sword get fouled sounds fun and I'd like to see it happen from time to time without horribly screwing the character.

[Spike]

And yeah, I would not exclude bladed weapons from being ruthenium coated. Logic has harder sacrifices to do in the name of fun.

Ah you're one of those GMs.. the ones that allow Dikoted Ally Spirits... gotcha. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Actually, its a little weird: I adopt a less absolute stance than the guys that started off with the 'just say no', and I get the 'evil asshole GM rant'?

Fine, no bullet for you, all those bullets your character has that say 'heavy pistol'? Yeah, those are 44mag, your heavy pistol happens to be 45. Sorry chuck.