Here be dragons, Runners Companion Preview Options

[hermit]

But, having a BP system for them is *great* because I can use them as NPCs. I'm not one for handwaving (I'm one of those "I have to justify this" sort of DMs) so having a BP cost to them is helpful. This'd be the same for, again, AIs.

Okay, I see that point. That kind of does make sense.

I like the rules, and I doubt they're an April Fool's joke, first it was released on the 2nd, and even the BT side of CGL managed to get the joke out on the 1st, and second because it looks too much like a workup of something that's a work in progress. It hasn't been proofread, it may not have been completely playtested yet, but it looks like something that's been thought out (thought, so did the BT one, to the point where people are planning on using it in games at conventions for the hell of it

Uhm, what was the BT april fool's? Could I have a link please?

[ornot]

I'm inclined to believe it's a joke since if it was a preview it's come out a long time before release, which isn't normal.

I have to admit that I wouldn't want a PC dragon, but the stats are useful if you wanted to know exactly what a dragon Johnson could or would do, and so you can put up a reasonably balanced NPC dragon against your Prime Runner group. It really would be annoying to have them swat it in the first IP, but equally you don't want to swat all of them in the first IP.

As for AI possessed toasters... Howdee Doodly Doo

[FlakJacket]

I like the rules, and I doubt they're an April Fool's joke, first it was released on the 2nd, and even the BT side of CGL managed to get the joke out on the 1st, and second because it looks too much like a workup of something that's a work in progress. It hasn't been proofread, it may not have been completely playtested yet, but it looks like something that's been thought out (thought, so did the BT one, to the point where people are planning on using it in games at conventions for the hell of it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

Which could feasibly be part of the joke considering the amount of whining that people make about missed release dates. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Naysayer]

hermit: here you go

Kinda falls into the same vein as the dragon thing, really.
Less subtle, though.
I found it quite funny, although I'm not into BT at all...

[Blade]

Another reason why I think it's a joke is the inclusion of obsidimens.
If the devs decided to add obsidimens to the game, they wouldn't just insert them as a new PC race. They'll have them appear in a plot book. Adding a whole new metahuman race (not just a metavariant) is a big deal.

[Synner]

Which could feasibly be part of the joke considering the amount of whining that people make about missed release dates. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fuchs]

Joke aside, it seems to be a pretty solid base for house ruling Dragon PCs.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

...nothing says I couldn't put out a sourcebook detailing how to play world-class chefs in the 6th world, each striving to create the best steak while juggling their hot-rod romances and snorting enormous amounts of cocaine. But you know what? This is not a valuable concept for Shadowrun, the game. This adds nothing except an air of ridiculousness. It takes something that, on its own, can be interesting and thought provoking, and reduces it to the level of daytime cartoons. I have nothing against cartoons. I just don't want them in my shadowrun. The rules in the BBB provide plenty of ways to use any of these things as NPCs, so there' s no reason to provide PC costs for them unless they're directly intended to be PCs.

First off, I agree completely with you that dragons as PCs are going to go a long way toward making SR lame. But I will play devil's advocate and point out that Shadowbeat provided rules for rock star characters, and then went on to devote much (maybe even most?) of the book to the concept. And Shadowbeat STILL managed to be one of the most awesome SR books out there. So I'm not saying dragons are going to be great fun, I'm just saying that a book could include them and still not be ALL bad.

But back to bashing dragon PCs, the "young dragon" theory doesn't seem to make sense to me. Isn't it established that dragons start out as wyverns? Or has that not been the case since SR1, and got retconned to make way for ED stuff?

[Prime Mover]

Been busy for few days and logged on to make a comment about the twitter feed. Way too much gushing over the new Battle tech book and not nearly enough about unwired.

And I come across the "RC" preview. Hmm Obsidianmen and dragons as PC's. I came to SR for its mix of man,machine and magic and lately it seems to be more man and machine and less magic. Why not add such things for a more awakened angle. I could see having an optional set of rules presented in a book full of optional stuff showing us how to use dragons and others as pc's. Joke or not the idea is interesting.

While I'm ranting about flavor unwired is always mentioned as the last "core" book. (Show us an unwired preview! ;P) What about the critter book, lackluster in 3rd edition it deserves to return to a core status.

But back to bashing dragon PCs, the "young dragon" theory doesn't seem to make sense to me. Isn't it established that dragons start out as wyverns? Or has that not been the case since SR1, and got retconned to make way for ED stuff?

I've played since the day SR1 landed on my FLGS's shelves. To the best of my knowledge, wyverns were never mentioned as being young dragons.

[ToreadorVampire]

Reactions (for I have more than one):

• PHEW!
• Heh heh heh, that was a good April fools joke (must have been to get this kind of reaction)
• Now I am even more impatient to see the REAL Runners Companion preview! Would be cool if you posted it April 2nd 2009 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
• Go-go-gadget "Unwired"!

[Ed_209a]

I think the BP cost is fair for the racial package. The problem, though is cramming that into a 400BP build.

Most dragons see metahumans as a resource to be hoarded and manipulated, like livestock, or perhaps power tools. Some might look at metahumans with curiosity and amusement, like housepets. A 400BP metahuman isn't significantly more impressive to a dragon than a 200BP meta.

A 400BP dragon is a different story. To a dragon, great or otherwise, dragons exist in a way metahumans don't. Or perhaps it's better to day they matter in a way we don't. I think all dragons see all other dragons as a threat to their hoard. An "ally" just means less of a threat.

I think a 400BP dragon will quickly be murdered, or more likely, dominated by another dragon.

The game is based on you having roughly 375-400 points after you pick your race. I think it's only reasonable to do the same for dragons. So, unless I start a 700 BP game, I wouldn't allow dragons.

[paws2sky]

Joke aside, it seems to be a pretty solid base for house ruling Dragon PCs.

Agreed.

And... mildly disappointed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

[Fuchs]

Yeah, I'd have liked it if Dragons were put to PC status. Would have made them less idolised.

[Grinder]

I've played since the day SR1 landed on my FLGS's shelves. To the best of my knowledge, wyverns were never mentioned as being young dragons.

The theory came up (in-game) in "Creatures of Barsaive". It has never been stated officially as true.

[Maelwys]

I see someone has already posted the BT April Fool's, so I won't repost, but I have to say (and this is a scary thought), but what if the joke is that it isn't a joke?

"haha, they posted about powerups on April Fool's, that's a good joke,"

Meanwhile the Devs laugh because it isn't a joke, and everyone is going to think that it is until the book comes out...

Mmmm....paranoia.

Maybe just the obsidimen paragraph is a joke (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As for life cycle, it goes

Hatchling (first 200 years or so, doesn't leave the nest really, watched over by a Guardian), Adolescent (Wyvern? wild and unpredictable, almost feral 50-100 years), Metemorphosis (5-10 years), Adult Dragon (2000+ years, this is what RC seems to have stats for), Great Dragon (Based on the ED book, I don't think DotSW gives as much details, and the Wyvern is considered to be linked to the Dragons, but not actually a Dragon...kinda like humans and chimps).

[Fortune]

The theory came up (in-game) in "Creatures of Barsaive". It has never been stated officially as true.

It's also mentioned in the Earthdawn Dragons book, IIRC.

[Maelwys]

It's also mentioned in the Earthdawn Dragons book, IIRC.

Vasdenjas takes great exception to being asked if the adolescent dragons were wyverns, but I believe one of the other books puts for the possibility that the "Deny wyverns are dragons" is to protect them. Since they're at their most vulnerable then, dragon hunters could target them specifically, and the denial is one big smokescreen.

[eidolon]

For the record, I got totally pwnd by this. Teach me to be busy at work and not really follow gaming news for a while. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Hilarious.

Yeah, I'd have liked it if Dragons were put to PC status. Would have made them less idolised.

The exact opposite of my thoughts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JongWK]

i was referring to the tungstenstorm actually... you know... orbital bovine bombardment? i suppose they could be using cows made of tungsten, but i have my doubts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The C.O.W. (Complete Obliteration Warhead) is an advanced weapons systems by Ares. An orbital prototype is rumoured to be fully functional. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Prime Mover]

So any mention of wyrvens as dragons is from Earthdawn references? I always thought wyrvens were looked after like you'd look after your idiot cousin. Dragons of the Sixth World has a birth,youth and adulthood sections with no mention of wyrvens. I have always considered DotSW to be the authority for SR dragons.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

I've played since the day SR1 landed on my FLGS's shelves. To the best of my knowledge, wyverns were never mentioned as being young dragons.

Paranormal Animals of North America. Looking back on it, it's in the shadowtalk. I guess I just liked the idea (I LOVE explanations for dragons and such that don't involve the 4th World), and have just been thinking that in my games, that particular shadowtalk is reliable.

[FlakJacket]

Another reason why I think it's a joke is the inclusion of obsidimens.

If the devs decided to add obsidimens to the game, they wouldn't just insert them as a new PC race. They'll have them appear in a plot book. Adding a whole new metahuman race (not just a metavariant) is a big deal.

Well there have already been some oblique references to them being active in the Sixth World in the shadowcomments of a couple of the sourcebooks so you never know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Kyoto Kid]

Why am I thinking of Dana Lyons?

Oh, yeah, that's why.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

...precisely. Considered putting in a link myself but didn't want to milk the joke further.

...bad cow pun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Ancient History]

Wyvern vs. Dragon fans might also be interested in the back of Paranormal Animals of Europe, in the description of European wyverns.

[Adarael]

As for AI possessed toasters... Howdee Doodly Doo

You, sir, understand exactly what I meant when I was talking about toasters.
"You paid 2000 dollars for a toaster with AI... And you don't even like toast!"