If they can do Dragon PCs..., vampires and wendigoes should be no problem !!! Options

[Wanderer]

Well, assuming the rules for Dragon PCs aren't one big late April's Fool prank, I have to conclude that by comparison, vampires, wendigoes, nosferatu and banshee PCs ought not to be a taboo any longer. Fair is fair.

I have long craved for rules to play HMHVV-ridden characters (no, ghouls are far too pathetic, they don't matter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) ). Might this be the right time ?

[Platinum]

Shadowrun 4 - the cyber emo game, now with EPIC archtypes.

Don't forget playing invae, free spirits, or a minor horror.


So glad I don't play SR4.

[quentra]

I once played a minor horror in SR3. Just so you know. XD

Good times, good times.

[nathanross]

Vampires are not a problem at all. Nor are their metacounterparts. The only issue I can imagine is when they are awakened. My first SR3 character was bitten by a banshee when we were doing a vampire campaign. All his ware was forcefully removed and he just wasn't as good anymore. Sure he could turn into a cloud, but shine a UV light on him and he was done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Essence Drain in SR4 makes them quite a bit more attractive, but still not as good as ware. Awakened chars on the other hand...

[Wanderer]

Vampires are not a problem at all. Nor are their metacounterparts. The only issue I can imagine is when they are awakened. My first SR3 character was bitten by a banshee when we were doing a vampire campaign. All his ware was forcefully removed and he just wasn't as good anymore. Sure he could turn into a cloud, but shine a UV light on him and he was done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Essence Drain in SR4 makes them quite a bit more attractive, but still not as good as ware. Awakened chars on the other hand...

Let's be frank, the Awakened Quality is an almost-essential part of the various HMHVV-beasties concepts, if it's not freely available, one can even spare the effort of doing them. It is mandatory for some subtypes (wendigo, nosferatu), and very strongly indicated for vampires (not all vampires should be awakened, but most of them ought to, spells are necessary to replicate many of the traditional legendary powers of vampires, it is strongly suggested that HMHVV activates latent magical potential in mundanes). Anyway, I don't see what the big game balance concerns would be with Awakened vampires, both in comparison to Dragon PCs and taking it into account that Magic potential is bought from scratch in SR4.

[Zolhex]

Well, assuming the rules for Dragon PCs aren't one big late April's Fool prank, I have to conclude that by comparison, vampires, wendigoes, nosferatu and banshee PCs ought not to be a taboo any longer. Fair is fair.

I have long craved for rules to play HMHVV-ridden characters (no, ghouls are far too pathetic, they don't matter (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) ). Might this be the right time ?

I just say this read the dev chat logs guys PC Vampires were mentioned.

[Platinum]

Vampires are not a problem at all. Nor are their metacounterparts. The only issue I can imagine is when they are awakened. My first SR3 character was bitten by a banshee when we were doing a vampire campaign. All his ware was forcefully removed and he just wasn't as good anymore. Sure he could turn into a cloud, but shine a UV light on him and he was done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Essence Drain in SR4 makes them quite a bit more attractive, but still not as good as ware. Awakened chars on the other hand...

Just use a heavy spf sunscreen, and you will be fine. Extra init dice, essence added to your attributes ... just put in some extra drugs if you are on a tough run and you are laughing. Regen damage almost immediately ...

more than worth it.

[Malicant]

Just use a heavy spf sunscreen, and you will be fine. Extra init dice, essence added to your attributes ... just put in some extra drugs if you are on a tough run and you are laughing. Regen damage almost immediately ...

more than worth it.

It might come as a surprise, but your information concerning vamps is not up to date. SR4 in all it's stupid powergamer munchkinism (or whatever you don't seem to like about it) has actually nerfed the infected to such a degree where they don't break gamebalance with their very existence. Well, not more so then a troll does already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[vladski]

Shadowrun 4 - the cyber emo game, now with EPIC archtypes.

Don't forget playing invae, free spirits, or a minor horror.


So glad I don't play SR4.

Oh c'mon! The Dragon PC from the Runner Companion preview was an April Fool joke. I can absolutely not believe how many people fell for it, especially some of the same people that are mature and can get on here and min-max a character beyond the realms of anything sane and know 18 bajillion things about the military and gun-crafting and will explain them until your eyes begin to glaze over. The devs obviously did it a day after in order to catch people off their toes a bit (and to make fun of themselves always being behind on their deadlines), but seriously... every single thing points to it being a prank.

I can see people discussing it afterwards, for those that think it might be a cool kind of concept, but for people to go on and on and on and on about how it is a game destroyer and venting their spleen is jsut silly.

It's a joke people. It won't be RAW. For those that think it's a cool concept, now you have a basis to build on for your own home-grown rules.

Vlad

[FrankTrollman]

Well, assuming the rules for Dragon PCs aren't one big late April's Fool prank,

I think we are talking about "Drakes" which are sort of technically Dragons and which unwisely were given playable rules in 3rd edition.

But yes, Vampire PCs are on the table.

-Frank

[Stahlseele]

if there are vampires, i want my obsidimen! . . let's see those suckers bite through that skin of mine <.< . .
they'll probably add dikote to their teeth

[hermit]

Obsidimen could just have themselves dikote'd entirely! They're basically free spirits, after all.

I have long craved for rules to play HMHVV-ridden characters (no, ghouls are far too pathetic, they don't matter). Might this be the right time ?

Good times fou you and all the others who crave the oWoD: Yes, vampire characters WILL be in RC, be the dragons an april fool's or not.

The only issue I can imagine is when they are awakened.

Which at least the Wendigo and the Vampire are on default, yes. The Banshee, I'm not sure, and the Goblin and Dzoo/Mutaqua, no, though, but, as the above quoted poster wopuld put it, they propably wouldn't count because they're too pathetic.

And I see no way to include a Wendigo PC into a runner group without fucking up every other character - unless the wendigo is changed drastically fromt he NPC version.

[Malicant]

Obsidimen could just have themselves dikote'd entirely! They're basically free spirits, after all.

Actually, they are not. They are part of some kind of earth spirit thingy, that would be described as wild, but not exactly free.

Now that I think about it, liferocks could be some kind of alchera. Hm, have to elaborate that thought a little.

Which at least the Wendigo and the Vampire are on default, yes. The Banshee, I'm not sure, and the Goblin and Dzoo/Mutaqua, no, though, but, as the above quoted poster wopuld put it, they propably wouldn't count because they're too pathetic.

Call me a nagger, but Vampires are not per default awakened. Wendigos and Nosferatu are, though.

[hermit]

Actually, they are not. They are part of some kind of earth spirit thingy, that would be described as wild, but not exactly free.

Which would fit the SR definition of free spirits. Actually, those that were hinted at in SR fluff were described as such. In SR, free spirits includes all not bound by a magican. That does include a number of things ED wouldn't consider spirits. Sprites and all other fae, for instance, fall under free spirits, too (the Wild Hunt arguably would be a bound spirit, though).

Call me a nagger, but Vampires are not per default awakened. Wendigos and Nosferatu are, though.

Nagger. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You're right though. Vampires just are "usually" or "often" awakened, not by default.

[ccelizic]

You don't often see things that are irredeemably evil as a PC option. I mean there's options for mostly evil stuff, but vampires cross that line into the realm of insect shamans and Toxic Shamans. Ghouls do not drain essence, they do not feed on the living. Ghouls can scrape by a pathetic existance of feeding off the detritus of strife and medical waste in the sixth world. Vampires however need a live victim, and the victim permenantly loses a point of essence (unless you take into consideration a rather expensive and lenghty gene therapy). The drain takes a minute to pull off and the victim must be helpless or willing and even then the victim might become addicted and want more. In a way this feeding aspect can be like a spiritual rape. Even if the victim is willing to give blood to the vampire I suspect few are aware at what they are truly sacrificing to it and of course there's always the infection, if you fail to kill your victim they will become like you. A vampire can only exist by ruining lives.

It would make an interesting option none the less. Though in ways it may be harder then a dragon to deal with, how many players do you have to actually cover their meals in the game session? Not my cup of tea as a player, though it would be interesting to see how they field the mechanics.

[hermit]

Even when handled perfectly, a vampire PC is nothing but a spotlight whoring Mary Sue by default. Then again, that's pretty much what oWoD was all about.

Vampires however need a live victim, and the victim permenantly loses a point of essence (unless you take into consideration a rather expensive and lenghty gene therapy). The drain takes a minute to pull off and the victim must be helpless or willing and even then the victim might become addicted and want more. In a way this feeding aspect can be like a spiritual rape (...) and of course there's always the infection, if you fail to kill your victim they will become like you.

1) The easiest way for a vampire to build that emotional connection to a victim would be a physical rape, if you ask me.
2) That revitalisation therapy from aresenal does NOT cover essence loss from the essence drain power.
3) For all I know, Banshees and Vampires have to completely drain their victims; Dzoo and Goblins, I have no idea how they proliferate. Bite and drain, I guess, but for all I know there's nothing definite on them. With Nosferati it's complicated, and Lycantrophes are bite/scratch, much like Krieger.

[nathanross]

I think we are talking about "Drakes" which are sort of technically Dragons and which unwisely were given playable rules in 3rd edition.

Out of curiosity Frank, what are your issues with Drakes as PCs?

It would make an interesting option none the less. Though in ways it may be harder then a dragon to deal with, how many players do you have to actually cover their meals in the game session? Not my cup of tea as a player, though it would be interesting to see how they field the mechanics.

I remember how much of a bitch it was to find meals for my banshee. After I was bitten I was soooooo thirsty, and the first thing I ran across was a poor squatter huddles around a trashcan fire. After chasing him as a cloud until he was exhausted, I swoop down for the kill. GM has me roll unarmed combat (which I don't have) and my Str is 3, so yeah, 4+4 = not easy TN. Anyways, eventually I get fed up and shoot the fucker in the leg. Didn't get much of a meal due to blood loss, but at least it took the edge off.

We played a one-shot run later where he was able to be an twisted adept and we (myself and a twisted adept troll) had some jolly fun taking on blood spirits and cyberzombies (we had some serious potency).

[Stahlseele]

Out of curiosity Frank, what are your issues with Drakes as PCs?

probably the fact that they are basically dragon shapeshifters but don't/didn't follow the shapeshifter rules for player characters in that they did not have to buy their attributes for each form separately, if i remember correctly . . and didn't they start off with an essence of 8 or something like that?

[hermit]

I do have a problem with drakes too, but that's personal trauma, and propably also because a drake always dominates a group's storylines. If all Greats hunt you down, it's rather hard not to always stand in the sportlight.

[Stahlseele]

yeah, that's why nobody in our group plays one of those, a ghould or a shapeshifter . . even meta-variants are hellishly seldom with us, because it screams:"HIM! HE DID IT!". .
GM:"i don't care if you got the blandness edge, if you're a 3m tall albino giant with obvious cyber-arms people WILL recognize you!"

[hermit]

Well, I do know some really nice and playable Variants. A Night One skillmonkey for instance, who has a high masking skill and uses masks to conceal what she is when on a run where stealth is nescessary (otherwise, she uses more simple masks or visored helmets and gloves). #And Ogres, Hobgobbos and Formorians hardly look different from ordinary orks or trolls, really.

[Fortune]

I don't want Obsidimen!
I don't want T'skrang!

That's about all I have to say on the matter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hermit]

Honestly, I would prefer Obsidimen over vampires.

[WearzManySkins]

I don't want Obsidimen!
I don't want T'skrang!

That's about all I have to say on the matter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

+1 me too

WMS

[Malicant]

Even when handled perfectly, a vampire PC is nothing but a spotlight whoring Mary Sue by default. Then again, that's pretty much what oWoD was all about.

Same can be said about Elfs, Trolls, Dwarfs, Orks and basically everything that is not a mundane human. You overuse of the term May Sue makes me wonder if you actually understand the term.

1) The easiest way for a vampire to build that emotional connection to a victim would be a physical rape, if you ask me.

Slapping someone in the face is easier. There is not even real pain involved in that method.

2) That revitalisation therapy from aresenal does NOT cover essence loss from the essence drain power.

Does not really matter, since Cellular Repair does cover Essence Drain and is both cheaper and faster.

3) For all I know, Banshees and Vampires have to completely drain their victims; Dzoo and Goblins, I have no idea how they proliferate. Bite and drain, I guess, but for all I know there's nothing definite on them. With Nosferati it's complicated, and Lycantrophes are bite/scratch, much like Krieger.

Vampires don't have to kill. Banshees must kill their victims. Dzoo and Goblins and most likely too stupid to care, so they will rather drain their victim completly.