A Newbie Runner's Questions Regarding Technomancers, Maybe I'm being painfully ignorant here, but... Options

[Jetm]

I have a few Technomancer related questions that I've yet to find answers to elsewhere. I apologize in advance if I'm asking really obvious questions.

When spending karma to improve a TM, is it generally better to forgo learning new Complex Forms in favor of improving attributes or submersing? It seems to me that you could just Thread any needed CF and buy your successes for a rating of at least 4, and given the really high costs for learning new CF's, I can't justify learning new ones at all. Am I missing something obvious here?


Also, regarding Sprites:

If I loan out a sprite to, say, a hacker, can that Sprite assist that hacker in program/skill tests like an Agent, or is it literally only able to assist in the use of Complex Forms?

[Malicant]

You're pretty correct about CFs being to much of a karma sink. Just buy as many as you can at chargen with rating 1-3 (whatever suits you) plus stealth at 5 or 6 and be done with it. Threading will take care of the rest.

And as far as I know CFs can't assist with programs, just as a TM can't thread programs.

[ludomastro]

If your Search-fu is up to par, you can find hundreds of threads about how much the TM needs an overall. Most of us are hoping for something in Unwired.

I, for one, am not holding my breath.

[Tiger Eyes]

I have a few Technomancer related questions that I've yet to find answers to elsewhere. I apologize in advance if I'm asking really obvious questions.

When spending karma to improve a TM, is it generally better to forgo learning new Complex Forms in favor of improving attributes or submersing? It seems to me that you could just Thread any needed CF and buy your successes for a rating of at least 4, and given the really high costs for learning new CF's, I can't justify learning new ones at all. Am I missing something obvious here?

Threading is something many technomancers rely upon. It's not a bad idea to buy other complex forms, but if you're karma squeezed, submersing is the way to go. Threading is also instantaneous, which makes it very useful in cybercombat (see the FAQ). Just watch the Fading from Threading. Nothing worse than giving yourself 4S in the middle of a fight.

Also, regarding Sprites:

If I loan out a sprite to, say, a hacker, can that Sprite assist that hacker in program/skill tests like an Agent, or is it literally only able to assist in the use of Complex Forms?

SR 4, pg 235: "Loaned Tasks: A registered sprite can be ordered to obey the orders of another character (technomancer or not). The technomancer effectively grants one or more of the owed tasks to the other character. Naturally, a non-technomancer cannot use a sprite to learn, thread, or sustain complex forms, but any other task may be demanded from the sprite."

So, there you go. My TM is everyone's best friend, with her handy Machine Sprites + Diagnostics + Loaned Tasks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Jetm]

Threading is something many technomancers rely upon. It's not a bad idea to buy other complex forms, but if you're karma squeezed, submersing is the way to go. Threading is also instantaneous, which makes it very useful in cybercombat (see the FAQ). Just watch the Fading from Threading. Nothing worse than giving yourself 4S in the middle of a fight.

Yeah, my initial impression upon reading the Technomancer section on threading was "Oh GOD."

SR 4, pg 235: "Loaned Tasks: A registered sprite can be ordered to obey the orders of another character (technomancer or not). The technomancer effectively grants one or more of the owed tasks to the other character. Naturally, a non-technomancer cannot use a sprite to learn, thread, or sustain complex forms, but any other task may be demanded from the sprite."

So, there you go. My TM is everyone's best friend, with her handy Machine Sprites + Diagnostics + Loaned Tasks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh, I read that bit, which is about the same time that it occured to me to loan sprites to assist in hacking tasks. The confusion came up, though, after reading the section on Assist Operations: SR 4, pg. 235: "A registered Sprite can add it's rating to any single complex form used by the technomancer." Does Assist Operations include assisting in Program/Skill Tests for hackers? Or is it something different altogether?

[Malicant]

Oh, I read that bit, which is about the same time that it occured to me to loan sprites to assist in hacking tasks. The confusion came up, though, after reading the section on Assist Operations: SR 4, pg. 235: "A registered Sprite can add it's rating to any single complex form used by the technomancer." Does Assist Operations include assisting in Program/Skill Tests for hackers? Or is it something different altogether?

By quoting that part you already answered your question. A program is not a complex form and a hacker will most of the time not be a technomancer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yes, it is something diffrent altogether, it just uses similar rules.

[Jetm]

By quoting that part you already answered your question. A program is not a complex form and a hacker will most of the time not be a technomancer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yes, it is something diffrent altogether, it just uses similar rules.

I see, I see! That makes things much easier. Thanks for clarifying (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

[Jetm]

Ok, a new question has reared it's head, and I've been hearing from two conflicting viewpoints on it:


Does compiling a sprite count as a matrix action? If so, do technomancers get related bonuses to it from qualities such as Codeslinger?

[Jaid]

page 219 of the core book has a chart on page 219 entitled "matrix actions".

compile sprite and shut down a sprite* are both considered matrix actions, and i personally would be inclined to add threading to that (i suspect the only reason threading isn't on there is because it doesn't require a type of action to use).

so codeslinger can certainly apply to compiling a sprite (oddly not for registering a sprite or decompiling a sprite technically, but once again i personally would add those in).

* to be perfectly honest, i have no idea what shutting down a sprite is. maybe they never got around to editing it out, or maybe they mean decompiling. i don't know.

[Jetm]

Next Question:

Unregistered Sprites last for 8 hours unless they've been tasked/registered, after which they De-Rez, correct? Registering a Sprite takes a minimum of the Sprite's Rating in hours, right? So, hypothetically speaking, does this mean that you can't possibly have a sprite with a rating higher than 8 registered, since they'd De-Rez during the Registration process if you went for say, a rating 10? Or does the Process of registering stall De-Rezing until the whole thing has been completed (or failed)?

And yes, I realize the fading would be ridiculous. It's a hypothetical.

[Nightwalker450]

Next Question:

Unregistered Sprites last for 8 hours unless they've been tasked/registered, after which they De-Rez, correct? Registering a Sprite takes a minimum of the Sprite's Rating in hours, right? So, hypothetically speaking, does this mean that you can't possibly have a sprite with a rating higher than 8 registered, since they'd De-Rez during the Registration process if you went for say, a rating 10? Or does the Process of registering stall De-Rezing until the whole thing has been completed (or failed)?

And yes, I realize the fading would be ridiculous. It's a hypothetical.

I think most people have allowed them not to de-rez till after you are done registering. Or they pop back into existance after you're done. Mages suffer from the same thing, except theirs is sunrise or sunset.

[Tiger Eyes]

Does compiling a sprite count as a matrix action? If so, do technomancers get related bonuses to it from qualities such as Codeslinger?

If you're asking b/c you're looking for advantageous qualities for a TM, look at Home Ground. +2 to all tests while in that area. Pick a node (a data haven like ShadowSea in Seattle, the Nexus, etc works well for a hacker or TM) and then while you're in that node, you get a +2 to compiling, registering, data searches, threading...

That plus the VR bonus of +2, and you'll get a nice +4 to those compiling and registering tests.

[Tiger Eyes]

Next Question:
And yes, I realize the fading would be ridiculous. It's a hypothetical.

I think my GM is waiting to see if I ever try to register a level 9 sprite to decide. He doesn't have to answer if I die trying... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Fleming]

Quick question: as someone owning a German BBB, and thus not familiar with all of the original English terminology, could someone please explain Threading and Submersing to me? Just a short definition, so I know which of the German terms match here.

Thanks!

[Malicant]

It's the thingy TMs do to improve Complex Forms.

[Magus]

Quick question: as someone owning a German BBB, and thus not familiar with all of the original English terminology, could someone please explain Threading and Submersing to me? Just a short definition, so I know which of the German terms match here.

Thanks!

Think of Threading as either completely writing a program you do not have from scratch for a one time use. It is not something you have saved in your brain that you have at all times. It is patch that you can concentrate on and will into existence. Resist Fading with STUN if the rating of the CF is at or below your Resonance. Or Resist with Physical Damage if rating is OVER your Resonance rating.

OR you can BOOST any existing Complex Form you have By either the rating of your Resonance and resist STUN damage with Fading or Physical if OVER the rating of your Resonance.

Submersing is just Initiation for Techno's.

[Chibu]

So, I was talking in a different thread about technomancers, and was told they were not magical. It's funny though how they have the same rules as magic. Ya know, casting spells, taking drain... summoning spirits... Maybe in Unwired they'll actually say that they're magical (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Nightwalker450]

They're not magical for the same reason Artisan is not a combat skill. Artisan skill uses the same rules as Automatics and Longarms, but guess what its not combat. Just because they use the same rules does not mean they are magical! They use the same rules so that you don't have to memorize two completely different rule sets. I don't see anything that says anywhere in the book that Technomancers are magical, in fact all you read are fluff, and testimonials from mages that say they are not magical, that they have no impact on the astral plain, no more than a person with cancer does. Because cancer shows up in astral space, and that is the realitivity of a Technomancer showing up in astral. Thats why it takes 5 hits on an assensing test to find them, because they are so far removed from magical. Rules are the same for ease of use, the whole streamlining that was done in 4th ed, not because they are magical.

[Malicant]

Also, TM don't cast spells and don't have anything resembling spellcasting.

[Chibu]

Think of Threading as either completely writing a program you do not have from scratch for a one time use. It is not something you have saved in your brain that you have at all times. It is patch that you can concentrate on and will into existence. Resist Fading with STUN if the rating of the CF is at or below your Resonance. Or Resist with Physical Damage if rating is OVER your Resonance rating.

Also, TM don't cast spells and don't have anything resembling spellcasting.

Yes, I understand that it's NOT spellcasting and that they are NOT considered magical. No need to get bent out of shape about it. but the first quote there just sounds like spellcasting using different names for things. I'm not trying to say that they ARE magical, or that they pull energy from the astral plane, or anything like that. I was simply commenting on how the rules sound the same, which i agree is alot easier than having to know completely different rulesets for everything. Even the name, Threading sounds like spellcasting from Earthdawn.

Yes, again, no need to tell me again how they're not magical and there is no astral energy. I get it. I just thought it was strange how sililar they sound.

[Malicant]

Threadweaving is not spellcasting either. It is more like preparing the stage for spellcasting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jetm]

Next Question:

Regarding Tasks, if you were to have a Sprite pilot a Drone or Vehicle, that would count as a remote task, right? Would having the Sprite-Piloted Drone perform actions use up tasks (I.E., if you had a Steel Lynx being manned by a Machine Sprite, would having the steel Lynx open fire with it's Ares MP-LMG use up a task?)?

[Nightwalker450]

Next Question:

Regarding Tasks, if you were to have a Sprite pilot a Drone or Vehicle, that would count as a remote task, right? Would having the Sprite-Piloted Drone perform actions use up tasks (I.E., if you had a Steel Lynx being manned by a Machine Sprite, would having the steel Lynx open fire with it's Ares MP-LMG use up a task?)?

Since you can be in multiple nodes on the matrix, I've never really done a "remote" task with them. I'm usually inactive in the node with them.

But otherwise I believe its handled like a spirit, you task them to defend you or assist you in combat, and they will do as they see fit to perform the task.

[Jaid]

Next Question:

Regarding Tasks, if you were to have a Sprite pilot a Drone or Vehicle, that would count as a remote task, right? Would having the Sprite-Piloted Drone perform actions use up tasks (I.E., if you had a Steel Lynx being manned by a Machine Sprite, would having the steel Lynx open fire with it's Ares MP-LMG use up a task?)?

also, depending on the type of sprite, it may be able to remotely control the drone (in which case the sprite could remain with your active persona, if you so choose)

[Ryu]

"Combat" against one target/group of targets is one task, like with spirits. Specific orders within combat use up a task; if you get to RP the sprite, the need for this is of course avoidable to some degree.