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> Character Critique: Yuan, Balanced throwing adept!
Larme
post Apr 9 2008, 08:58 PM
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It seems to me that lots of throwing adepts are based on "look how powerful my throws are!" But with all the uber-dodging that samurai can do, it really doesn't matter how powerful your throws are, if you can't hit... With that in mind, I made this throwing character whose throws are much weaker than your typical twinked out ork adept, but she has enough dice that she's still very deadly. Instead of twinking out Strength (which really is the bitch of all attributes in SR4, except logic), I have pigged out on the more universally useful Agility.

The character's name is Yuan, pronounced Yoo-ahn, after the Chinese currency. She was born dirt poor in a Hong Kong slum, and the most treasured of her few possessions was a souvenir version of an old style Chinese coin, the kind with the square hole in it. To her, the coin represented money, and money represented the cure for everything that was wrong with her crappy life. She tried to make her fortune starting at a young age by acting as a package runner for some really small-time chip dealers, which she did ok at. But she had little success when she tried to strike out on her own as a dealer herself, she just didn't have the social aptitude for it. She Awakened at around 14 when some rival dealers had cornered her and were about to engage in a 'buyout' of her operations, the kind that involves a lead pipe. All she had was her precious coin squeezed in her hand for good luck, when without thinking about it, she threw it through the leader's skull, scattering the rest of the group. As her magical abilities and throwing skills improved, business picked up, even though business took a sharp turn in the murder for hire direction. Eventually, she was doing well enough to afford bioware to further enhance herself, and then to get out of Hong Kong and hit the cash-lined streets of Seattle.

Yuan has short, spiked green hair with red tips, the colors of blood and (at least traditionally in UCAS) money. She is obsessed with symbols of cash. She wears gold shades, and a gray Actioneer suit with all of the buttons replaced with souvenir Chinese coins. Her talisman is a bracelet of souvenir coins that reminds her of her origins, and the primacy of currency. Though she has trained primarily with knives, Yuan always has dozens of souvenir coins on her person. She can usually be seen idly doing sleight of hand tricks with them, but she doesn't hesitate to hurl them to impress people or to kill anyone who's not worth wasting a 20 yen knife on.

[ Spoiler ]
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Larme
post Apr 10 2008, 11:40 AM
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43 views and no comments? Not even a flame? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
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Cthulhudreams
post Apr 10 2008, 11:51 AM
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Buying leg casings from the 'leg and arm casings' - gets you an extra +0/+1 for 8/7 encumberance.

If you just got an FFBA helmet and put that on during the action that gets you 8/8 for a real armour of ?/9 which is sweet, but does require cocking about, so option A might be better.
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ArkonC
post Apr 10 2008, 12:00 PM
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Optimized Agility is genetic optimization, I assume, so it only costs 0.2E...
Other than that it looks good...
Maybe you could fill up the remaining .4E with reflex recorders and/or cybereyes, free up some PP for some of the cooler powers...
Or maybe get some skillwires for easy diversification...
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Malicant
post Apr 10 2008, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 10 2008, 01:40 PM) *
43 views and no comments? Not even a flame? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

It sucks. Happy now? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But now some serious comments.
Genetic optimisation costs .2 Essence, not .4. Keep the free space to upgrade Muscle Toner later in game.
I not sure why you chose Improved Ability (Gymnastics), I'd replace it with Combat Sense. And Improved Sense (Eyelight) might actually be something that connot be done with that power. Since Eyelights is not a sense at all.
Buy yourself some armor to wear with FFBA, like the PPP stuff and some Armored Clothing.

That's kind of it for a quick glance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Ryu
post Apr 10 2008, 01:17 PM
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Body 4, Strength 4... Power Throw ensures sufficient range... take Body 5, Strength 3.

I would go with Agility 5(7), without the genetic optimisation. That die is expensive. I agree that your choosen path is the best way of having base agility 6, as long as the ressource allowance is high enough.

On the same note, consider starting with Improved Thrown Weapons 1 and Magic 5. Remaining base Thrown Weapons pool if doing both is 14, more with knives. Not bad at all. 17 wonĀ“t hit the full-defense samurai either, and if it does, you need the typical munched damage to punch through armor. That single magic point can be bought for 12 karma ingame (it then being the fourth point of magic), but costs you 25 BP now.

Improved Senses should be passive, Eyelights are IMO out.
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Daier Mune
post Apr 10 2008, 03:03 PM
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Something I had been thinking about for a while now is a throwing adept who uses a lightweight spear along with a few knives. would give him a little bit more utility than just a thrower.
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Larme
post Apr 10 2008, 05:01 PM
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Yay, wonderful commentses (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

I'm pretty sure genetic optimization's essence is a typo, thanks for catching it.

Combat sense is a good idea. It only gives one die instead of 2, but it applies to more than just full defense.

I do have armor to go with the FFBA, it's the Actioneer suit.

Leg and arm casings would put me into encumbrance. Actioneer has armor 5, plus have of the FFBA, for a ballistic armor 8. If I add anything with more ballistic armor, I become uncumbered. I could get better impact armor from a helmet with shin guards instead of shin guards and forearm guards, but I don't want to wear a helmet, so I'm sticking with a point lower impact armor.

@Ryu -- good ideas on shifting body and strength, especially since I could drop in a point of muscle aug to compensate. Though I do want to keep agility 6. It's an expensive die, but it's really not that bad.

On eye lights, the power says anything that can be done with cyber, excluding stuff like ultrasound or radio. Since eye lights are light, not some special technological force, I think they would fit. If not though I can just strap a lowlight flashlight to my shoulder (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Malicant
post Apr 10 2008, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE
Any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power.

Eyelight is not a sense, not even in the broadest definition (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

QUOTE ( @ Apr 10 2008, 07:01 PM) *
I do have armor to go with the FFBA, it's the Actioneer suit.

I was thinking about armor that does not make you look like you on a business trip while breaking and entering, or even walking down a street.
Get some armored clothing plus PPP plus medium FFBA and you have armor 10/7 (I think) and no encumbrance. Or get Body up to 5 (Strenght down to 3) and you can wear the big FFBA with armored clothing and PPP, giving you 12/8 armor and no encumbrance.
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Larme
post Apr 10 2008, 08:11 PM
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I was planning to dress the suit up considerably and make it look more ganger style. But part of that consideration was that the actioneer had the exact amount of armor I wanted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'm definitely open to rethinking her image and her clothes if I end up raising her body to wear more armor.

As for improved sense, I thought it could reproduce any vision enhancement that cyberware could do... Am I missing something? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)
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Malicant
post Apr 10 2008, 08:49 PM
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It pretty much says sense, not enhancement, so I guess Eyelights are out.
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Mr. Unpronouncea...
post Apr 10 2008, 09:03 PM
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Well, the thing is, it's not so much a vision enhancement as an eye modification...should "improved senses" allow the protective cover, as well?

edit: scooped.
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nathanross
post Apr 10 2008, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 10 2008, 07:40 AM) *
43 views and no comments? Not even a flame? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Wow, can anyone else say min-maxed? This thing reeks of Vanilla. This is one of my problems with Orks in the new rules, they are just free BP. You get Body 4 and Strength 3 for free, so you get a Bod 4, Str 4 for only 30BP, instant savings of 30BP, and total savings of 25BP (after the human looking edge). Just play a human for Christ's sake. And Logic 1? Really? We have a Logic 1 player in our group and when correctly roleplayed, is completely fucking useless out of combat. It smells of dump-stat completely. Also, Charisma 2 Ork, really original.

Also, Synaptic 2 on an Adept? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! And when did adept powers put flashlights in your eye? I assume that is what you are talking about with "Improved Sense (Eyelights)". I hope that is enough of a flame for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Adarael
post Apr 10 2008, 09:11 PM
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So you're saying you hate the character because you don't like the rules on Orks in 4th edition?
That's bogus, man.
(For the record, I also agree that he is vanilla, but that's because I have no clear picture of his history, lifestyle, or outlook based on skills.)

1) Free BP for making an ork? Well, that's the way the rules are set up. Change the rules in your own game, sure, but don't get down on a guy for making an ork. I do admit, though, that the 'human looking' is silly. I just hate the human looking advantage in general, though. If I can reliably tell the difference between eastern and western chinese ancestry (I can, apparently) no 5 point merit should ever fool me into thinking an ork is a regular human.
2) Charisma 2 for an ork should be about average. Why the hell should he pay for high charisma if there's no reason to? Stat level is fine here.
3) Logic 1... Okay, I admit, I was on board with this when I first saw the character, but you know what? I've re-thought it, and it could be awesome and amazing. Supposing the PC was a total street warrior, didn't go to school, etc, then this is totally fine. He has intuition 4, and all of his knowledge skills are Int-linked. This is a guy who SHOULD have a tiny logic. He's got nothing to use the stat on. Frankly, there probably hasn't been much for him to practice being logical AT.
And I like the idea of the adept street warrior who's so zen he reacts purely by instinct and consequently has a totally shit logic score.
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MarCazm
post Apr 10 2008, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 10 2008, 11:03 PM) *
Also, Synaptic 2 on an Adept? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! And when did adept powers put flashlights in your eye?


So you would spent 3 magic points for getting improved reflexes instead of losing just 1 point of magic for the same result?

You gotta be kiddin'
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DTFarstar
post Apr 10 2008, 09:34 PM
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On the eyelights thing, I'm pretty sure you can't do it, but beyond that I've always thought that was silly. Nothing says shoot me in the eye like them being the only light source in a battle.

Chris
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nathanross
post Apr 10 2008, 09:49 PM
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@ Adarael and MarCazm, I am being extreme! He asked for flames and I gave them, I hoped the " (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) " would be enough note this, but I guess not. Still though, Orks really do lack the ugly in SR4, and yes, 5BP means he looks like a human (no tusks).

And as for bioware adepts, I find them boring. I have houseruled Increase Reflexes power at 1pp/level, but even with RAW costs, I would never put Synaptic in an adept. I see no reason to do so other than BP efficiency, and unfortunately that is all I see in this character. I do like the Gaes though; one of my favorite flaws.
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Stalker-x
post Apr 10 2008, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Apr 10 2008, 05:34 PM) *
Nothing says shoot me in the eye like them being the only light source in a battle.


Nope.

QUOTE (Arsenal @ p. 38)
The tight beam and polarization minimize the beam's scatter, so the light canā€™t be seen unless the user is staring directly at another person or this person is able to see the small spot illuminated by the eye light system.


I am just now wondering about something different: Why purchase a Fake Licence for knives? I can understand that you do want a licence for handguns - it's hard to explain why you're in possession of an unregistered firearm. Knives, however, do not require registration (as far as I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). They're easy to hide, even easier to purchase, and it shouldn't be illegal to carry them with you (and let's hope the cop does not know how to distinguish a throwing knife from an ordinary one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).
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Adarael
post Apr 10 2008, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 10 2008, 01:49 PM) *
@ Adarael and MarCazm, I am being extreme! He asked for flames and I gave them, I hoped the " (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) " would be enough note this, but I guess not. Still though, Orks really do lack the ugly in SR4, and yes, 5BP means he looks like a human (no tusks).

And as for bioware adepts, I find them boring. I have houseruled Increase Reflexes power at 1pp/level, but even with RAW costs, I would never put Synaptic in an adept. I see no reason to do so other than BP efficiency, and unfortunately that is all I see in this character. I do like the Gaes though; one of my favorite flaws.


Sorry. I am tired today, so I am missing otherwise apparent cleverness. My bad, not yours.
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Larme
post Apr 10 2008, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE (Stalker-x @ Apr 10 2008, 05:56 PM) *
Nope.



I am just now wondering about something different: Why purchase a Fake Licence for knives? I can understand that you do want a licence for handguns - it's hard to explain why you're in possession of an unregistered firearm. Knives, however, do not require registration (as far as I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). They're easy to hide, even easier to purchase, and it shouldn't be illegal to carry them with you (and let's hope the cop does not know how to distinguish a throwing knife from an ordinary one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).


They're Restricted, so you need a license to carry them. Though obviously there isn't a harsh penalty for having them without a license (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

QUOTE (Adarael @ Apr 10 2008, 05:11 PM) *
And I like the idea of the adept street warrior who's so zen he reacts purely by instinct and consequently has a totally shit logic score.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)
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WearzManySkins
post Apr 10 2008, 10:38 PM
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your Metalink is a paper weight with any OS software. Even with an OS software no programs again a paper weight.

Eye Lights is out.

Save some build points in Throwing, by taking it down to a 5 skill. That 6 is very expensive.

Again I agree about the magic rating of 6, it is very BP expensive just to have it lowered by bioware.

Suggestion for some contacts Tongs. If you can get it read Shadows of Asia.

No Martial Arts Positive Qualities? This character really needs some of them.

WMS
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DTFarstar
post Apr 10 2008, 10:46 PM
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The thing is, Stalker-x, You are right, that it isn't like a flashlight coming from your eye, but you are going to be looking directly at whoever you are fighting or you aren't going to be attacking them very well. So while I was being flippant, it still applies just to whoever you are fighting at that given time.

Chris
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b1ffov3rfl0w
post Apr 10 2008, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE (Stalker-x @ Apr 10 2008, 04:56 PM) *
I am just now wondering about something different: Why purchase a Fake Licence for knives? I can understand that you do want a licence for handguns - it's hard to explain why you're in possession of an unregistered firearm. Knives, however, do not require registration (as far as I know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). They're easy to hide, even easier to purchase, and it shouldn't be illegal to carry them with you (and let's hope the cop does not know how to distinguish a throwing knife from an ordinary one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).


It shouldn't be, maybe, but it is in a lot of places. Carrying a "concealed" knife is illegal in some places, while carrying a knife unconcealed might be considered brandishing the knife, particularly if you look threatening or out of place (as in "yew look outa place, boah"). Knives that are too small may be considered "concealed", whereas knives that are too large are swords. Owning a knife is usually not a legal issue, just carrying one. I am not a lawyer.

As for throwing versus ordinary knives, it's unlikely that the policeman will be a connoisseur of the impaling arts, but they may be equipped with visual databases of prohibited items in addition to their police training.

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Cthulhudreams
post Apr 10 2008, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 10 2008, 12:01 PM) *
Leg and arm casings would put me into encumbrance. Actioneer has armor 5, plus have of the FFBA, for a ballistic armor 8. If I add anything with more ballistic armor, I become uncumbered. I could get better impact armor from a helmet with shin guards instead of shin guards and forearm guards, but I don't want to wear a helmet, so I'm sticking with a point lower impact armor.


You need to go back and actually read leg and arm casings. If you buy the set, but elect to only use the leg OR arm casings, you specifically only get +0/+1 (no ballistic!) which for you is a free bonus point of impact armour.




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Ophis
post Apr 11 2008, 12:34 AM
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It looks okay apart from one thing, I hate the idea of a street raised athlete having the minimum body for her race. It's basically enough of a disconnect for me to turn down the character as a ref. I could live with average, but minimum seems unrealistic, this charcter will have exercised during her life and so will have developed a good physique, which should be represented by at least average Body and Strength to me. Then again I remove racial mods from the equation for increasing a stat with karma so an ork getting 8 strength has had to do as much work (with heavier weights I'll concede) as a human has getting 6 Strength.
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