Commlinks, Hype or Not ?? Options

[Synner667]

Hi,

Just back from a few days away, and re-reading my SR v4 rulebook..
..Specifically [for the moment] about wireless networks [cross-pollinating the SR info with CyberGeneration info, and some other stuff].


Rereading the stuff about Commlinks, I'm not sure that I see everyone having one..

Base cost is 300¥ [CMT Clip] to actually interact with the world, added is the cost of a display [¥25, Image Link sunglasses] to be able to usefully see the interactive world, and gloves to be able to press virtual buttons [¥250, AR Gloves]..
..So about ¥575 to be able to interact with the virtual world.

The example in the rulebook must be someone with implanted cameras and some sort of realtime optical recognition software, else how would their system be able to put text boxes in the right places [I wonder what the costs are] ??


I earn about £25k/year [about $50k, I think], but I'm not sure I'd want to spend nearly £600 for a portable computer too often.

For many people, not in reasonably wellpaid jobs, would there be a big uptake on them ??
I can't imagine droves of low income people buying them, when they might struggle for rent or food or day-to-day things.


How much coverage would there really be, to cater for the general population [obviously, wealthy people would have nicely infrastructured areas to support wireless networks] ??
Knowing how tech companies are in the realworld, I'm not sure I can see the 2070 ones having installed a huge number of wireless hotspots within 6 years - especially when there were so many repercussions from the 2064 Matrix Crash.


In fact, the Commlink doesn't appear to be anything more than a very powerful wireless smartphone or ultraportable computer [circa a little ahead of now]. with some sophisticated spatial software and the associated hardware.
I don't want to seem a killjoy, but are widespread wireless networking and powerful portable computers really so amazing [the current tech world expect have both of those within the next 10 years] ??

Or is it the interactivity that's the wonderful thing ??
Tho, considering brain-to-machine interfaces will have been around in SR for a while now, I can't see it as being anything amazing.


Do we know anything about the infrastructure for the wireless networks ??

[Heath Robinson]

I believe it's mentioned that the majority of people experience AR through SimSense overwriting portions of their field of experience. It is also implied, I believe, that your vison-enhancement capable equipment does include a set of cameras and your wireless equipment is capable of identifying relative locations of other devices via radio triangulation.

The idea behind the wireless matrix is not an access point architecture, but a large scale ad-hoc network that's mostly possible due to the sheer density of wireless transmitters in 2070. Every wireless capable device can route your packets, so your infrastructure is partially self-constructing as you get additional uptake and you only need to deploy some relays in places to guarantee some limited level of connectivity. You can use protocol translation at the outer limits to connect your surviving old networks to the newer stuff with a minimum of effort. You can get some useful optimisations by clever use of fibre alongside your wireless connections as well.

The commlink is so massively multi-purpose - y'know, because it's a damn computer - that they'll get marketed as an equivalent for any piece of current mobile computing technology (as well as some mobile devices we don't currently have) with the functions of every other neat little device. This would be similar to how the functionality of mobile phones is rapidly expanding to encompass any other device that may be popular.

[Professeur]

Also, the Commlink isn't just some portable computer. It's your ONLY computer, and the only one you'll ever need (except if you change your comm... or if something better comes along the way). It's also your cellphone, and your general multi-purpose electronic/informatic device (Trid/Mp3 player, PDA, whatever). Also, I think the satellite link costs something like 150Y, so it wouldn't really be that expensive to get coverage EVERYWHERE.

Hope I could answer some of your questions.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

The example in the rulebook must be someone with implanted cameras and some sort of realtime optical recognition software, else how would their system be able to put text boxes in the right places [I wonder what the costs are] ??

Huh, I figured it was triangulating the signal or using GPS-type data sent as part of the signal.

For many people, not in reasonably wellpaid jobs, would there be a big uptake on them ??
I can't imagine droves of low income people buying them, when they might struggle for rent or food or day-to-day things.

Probably it would be as hard to get a job without a commlink as it is now to get one without a phone. Or an address. Someone really poor would maybe own a used low-end commlink, much like you can get used low-end cellphones on craigslist or eBay. Image link and the virtual keyboard and such are nice but optional, as you can use the crappy screen and roll-out(!) keyboard on the commlink (think of something like the Sidekick -- in 2070, that'll be like having a rotary-dial phone). Beyond ghetto, it's Barrens.

How much coverage would there really be, to cater for the general population [obviously, wealthy people would have nicely infrastructured areas to support wireless networks] ??
Knowing how tech companies are in the realworld, I'm not sure I can see the 2070 ones having installed a huge number of wireless hotspots within 6 years - especially when there were so many repercussions from the 2064 Matrix Crash.

The main idea of the Wireless Matrix Initiative was probably establishing a standard. Beyond that, various devices communicate with each other and relay other communications (without "reading" them), so each wireless-enabled device is, in a sense, a hotspot. Or a small warmspot, anyway.

In some sense, though, that's one of the less believable elements of the setting.

[nathanross]

I also do not like the "everyone has a commlink" like RAW fluff would have it. I have yet to come up with official houserules on the subject, but I generally treat it as such (by rating):

1-2, Cellphones
3-4, Mobile Computers
5-6, Cyberdecks

Now the size is not the same. Rating 1-2 can be tiny; so small in fact that they can only be accessed wirelessly. Of course you can get them bigger (with a numerpad) but for most of the clubgoing set, this way it doesn't get in the way when they want to grind.

Rating 3-4 is also incredibly small, but needs to be at least business card in area, and half an inch in depth. Rating 5-6 is only a little bit bigger than this, and usually contains an internal sim module and datajack port (I dont buy that trodes are equivalent to datajacks).

As for how VR/AR looks, I treat it like Astral Space. The density of public nodes (those that replaced the Seattle Grid) allow perfect triangulation between nodes, and so when you dive into VR, you appear as your persona floating in virtual space. However, unlike astral, what is real in this space is the sculpting of the system and the nodes that are currently accessing it. That means that as you walk down a virtual street in downtown, you see tons of nodes walking around (commlinks). I am not sure how they deal with intercity matrix (I think the old fiber optic trunks are still more efficient than satellites or daisy chaining wireless emitters) in terms of sculpting. I think it could either be handled as a SAN or tunnel highway that you have to travel through from some centralized hub.

I still think of things in terms of Grid hierarchy, but instead of length = time, length = length in real life. Also, Private networks are limited to buildings usually by Matrix blocking paint (Wifi is not a term in my SR, and whoever put that in the book should be taken out back and shot), and connected to other corporate buildings via conventional Fiber optics or encrypted directional wireless. Though, I guess you still need SANs and Chokepoints that connect the PLTG to the LTG so employees can telecommute.

I also have not yet figured out how to scale hosts appropriately, since the SR4 rules are terrible with modeling high end corporate hosts and data havens.

[fatal2ty]

The way I view a Commlink is an amalgamation of your Cell phone, Wallet, MP3 Player, and a Personal Computer.

I don't know anybody that doesn't have a wallet of some kind, I can maybe think of 1 person that doesn't have a cell phone and most people i know have an MP3 player at least. I'm not poor, but I wouldn't call myself upper class either.

Nowadays, most people wouldn't leave the house without a Cell Phone and their Wallet, The wallet has your drivers license, paper money, Bank Card, Credit Card, memberships, receipts, etc. Your Cell phone keeps you connected to everyone you know. In SR, they just merged the 2 and added extra features. Not everyone will have a brand new off the shelf Commlink, but it isn't hard to get a used phone nowadays, i would assume a commlink would be even easier to get. Theres probably a decent shape one sitting in a pawn shop for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 5, after that you just get a friend with the right contacts to hook you up with a pirate connecton to the matrix and your set.

Another thing i just thought of, You can get a Cell Phone for free if you sign a contract for 2-3 years with a provider, I could see that still happening in 2070, you would pay your Matrix Provider a monthly fee and have unlimited Matrix usage, they would give you a commlink for free, low end, but still a commlink.

Now, as for the average Street Bum, they don't have a SIN, they don't have anything, no, just like now they don't have Cell Phones and their Wallet might have a stick of gum in it, they wouldn't have a Commlink in SR, they wouldn't care too much either, as long as they could get some food, some shelter and some Alchohol to ease the pain they're content

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Just curious, why do you not like the term "WiFi"? Is it the InterCaps, or the fact that it's a sort of trade name, or something else?

As for yer typical Bum, remember that many of them weren't always living on the street, and that a fair number of these guys will be BTL/hot-sim/VR addicts of some kind, so they won't be so willing to hock their commlinks to buy booze, any more than a junkie would sell his works.

[Earlydawn]

You know, the basis for 4th Edition Matrix has always made me scratch my head about Matrix services. Why are people paying for "service" that they're fundamentally grabbing off of Joe Baggadoughnuts' node? An E-mail account? You can get that for free NOW, so I don't know why you'd pay for it in the techno-fetishist future of 2070.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

[Cthulhudreams]

It costs less than that. A trode net is 50 nuyen and you are going to use one of those. So your example is down to about 150 quid, which isn't very much at all really, I imagine some people pay more for phones (the iphone!!) today.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

You know, the basis for 4th Edition Matrix has always made me scratch my head about Matrix services. Why are people paying for "service" that they're fundamentally grabbing off of Joe Baggadoughnuts' node? An E-mail account? You can get that for free NOW, so I don't know why you'd pay for it in the techno-fetishist future of 2070.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

Actually by the book (p 206) there is a bunch of Matrix infrastructure, which is I suppose is the way a megacorporation (or two) would organize it. I'm not sure why I envisioned the Matrix as the total of billions of ad-hoc network interactions, other than that it would make sense that way. Still, you'd need to connect beyond 50 meters or whatever, across oceans and stuff.

[ccelizic]

the wireless matrix is kinda scary in a "big brother is watching you" sort of way too. That commlink is broadcasting your commcode provided by you provider. Now the current rules give no prices for service, but they make a passing mention to avaliabliity of "black commcodes" that don't give your information away. Otherwise you can presume your commcode is linked to your SIN presuming you have one. As a GM I'd inclined to say that a a black commcode is part of a fake ID package, at least until unwired comes out. Most savvy shadowrunnres however will run in hidden mode to maintain a low wireless profile and so they don't compromise their identity. A good hacker can spoof a fake commcode too which helps keeps his real commcode from being compromised legally. Being in a nice neighborhood while running hidden means you attract unwanted legal attention

Just glancing into some of the shadowrun missions there's a few situations that come up where the PC's can get in a compromising situation if they don't have a commlink in active mode. Since it's not easy to detect hidden a hidden commlink, I suspect drones that patrol for hidden nodes instead just look for people walking around that lack an active commlink. This can make life difficult for anyone who lacks a commlink. It would also make life difficult for any havenot vagarants in the area, gives the law enforcement to shuffle'em outta the nice areas.

The barrens are noted for having patchy matrix connections at best. And since you need some sort of ID to log on, you either need some sort of hacking skill to spoof one, or be able to shell out for a fake. The commlink becomes another fence between the haves and havenots. It also becomes a way for the powers that be to discretely keep tabs on all your activities at all times. So sure, in those flashy marketining campaigns a commlink is the next best thing since sliced bread. But to your paranoid conspiracy theorists it's plenty of ammunition for their overworked mind.

[Fuchs]

Commlink=Smartphone.

In the last few years, we saw portable phones become more and more versatile. Cameras are now standard, as are MP3 players and some calendar function. In Africa, portable phones are already used to transfer money from one user to another, often accross countries to their family, or to pay for goods.

So, I see commlinks as as spread as portable phones today. Yes, everyone will have one.

[MYST1C]

Just curious, why do you not like the term "WiFi"? Is it the InterCaps, or the fact that it's a sort of trade name, or something else?

Speaking from a German perspective here:
I was quite disappointed when I discovered the "WiFi" term in the German SR4 book. Why? Because that term is not at all common here in Germany! We usually call that technology WLAN (Wireless Local Area Network) or Funknetz ("radio network").

[nathanross]

Just curious, why do you not like the term "WiFi"? Is it the InterCaps, or the fact that it's a sort of trade name, or something else?

As for yer typical Bum, remember that many of them weren't always living on the street, and that a fair number of these guys will be BTL/hot-sim/VR addicts of some kind, so they won't be so willing to hock their commlinks to buy booze, any more than a junkie would sell his works.

I hate the term WiFi because it has absolutely nothing to do with SR and degrades the SR Matrix to being like our current technology. WiFi or Wireless Fidelity is great in 2008. But it is just ad-speak that caught on. I hate seeing it in the book because I get the feeling it was put there to make the matrix more accessible (though incomplete) for new players by comparing it to current technology. The same goes for the supposed RFID proliferation which is a blow up of current technology. I guess I am sick of seeing the modern world in SR. I expect SR to be different, and so far everything they have done in SR4 has been to bring it closer.

And as for BTL's they come with the player built in (sim-module as well, IIRC) so all you need is a cable and a jack. I do not see bums owning commlinks. Far too new a technology. And where is the corp looking out for the bottom line? If commlinks are so proliferate, why aren't the corps charging subscription fees?

(Drinks and remembers the Glory Days)

[Fuchs]

I like it when SR adapts, and in my campaign, we had smartphones for decades, so commlinks are nothing new at all.
Subscription fees I cover by lifestyle.

[ornot]

Today mobile phones are tremendously widely used. There are whole families living in a single room in deprived third world conditions, who still scrape together the money for mobile phones and satellite TV. Similarly there is no reason why in SR almost everyone except truly destitute street people would have a commlink. SINless could probably get hold of the equivalent of PayAsYouGo type 'links. Bear in mind that there will be a wide range of providers competing for customers, which will keep the price down (I also include connection fees in lifestyle costs). I always run my world with a thriving greymarket culture which caters to the SINless, and can be accessed by runners who want to keep their identities secret. Syndicate backed banking services strike me as a logical extension of modern day loansharking. I'd suggest that in the cheapest commlinks (specifically the PayAsYouGo and syndicate backed type), users would be exposed to far more advertising and spam. People with higher lifestyle, and consequently higher cost comlink providers, would have more effective spam catchers.

I accept that SR4 is trying to adapt to reflect advances in current tech, and personally I prefer it. Having things unwired makes it easier to incorporate hackers/deckers/riggers into runs.

Finally... Funknetz! I see a new disco trend emerging in my SR world! Fibreoptic afro hairdo's! Cyber platforms! I guess it is the '70s again.

[Zak]

Finally... Funknetz! I see a new disco trend emerging in my SR world! Fibreoptic afro hairdo's! Cyber platforms! I guess it is the '70s again.

quoted for awesomeness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

[fatal2ty]

Fiberoptic afro, holy crap, that is possibly the most awesome thing I've heard of since, well, anything I guess.

I'm gonna have my group get into a fight with a bunch of gangers, a couple of them sporting Fiberoptic Afros

[nathanross]

I like it when SR adapts, and in my campaign, we had smartphones for decades, so commlinks are nothing new at all.
Subscription fees I cover by lifestyle.

Sure, they have had Pocket Secretaries for a while. The big difference was that your pocket secretary != cyberdeck. Now that they are one in the same, I need more of a reason why everyone does not have R6 commlinks. Aside from availability (which is completely based on game balance), they dont cost a whole lot more for the functionality. It is foolish that more than half the population would not be running around with them. Once you have one, there is no need to upgrade (which is completely unrealistic).

[Nightwalker450]

Sure, they have had Pocket Secretaries for a while. The big difference was that your pocket secretary != cyberdeck. Now that they are one in the same, I need more of a reason why everyone does not have R6 commlinks. Aside from availability (which is completely based on game balance), they dont cost a whole lot more for the functionality. It is foolish that more than half the population would not be running around with them. Once you have one, there is no need to upgrade (which is completely unrealistic).

Until 2071, when your R6, is now the new R4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I think this is how it would happen, so anyone running a R1 commlink probably got it in 2065 with the start of wireless. R4 is probably a couple years old. People running a R6 have something thats only a couple months old.

[ornot]

Hopefully in Unwired they'll introduce rules for rating degradation...

I'm not too comfortable arbitrarily implementing rating changes without some playtesting for balance.

[Nightwalker450]

Hopefully in Unwired they'll introduce rules for rating degradation...

I'm not too comfortable arbitrarily implementing rating changes without some playtesting for balance.

I'm pretty sure upkeep, and updates were supposed to be covered in unwired. I can't remember where I heard that though.

But just theorizing a simple rating markdown of 1 every 6 months would probably be good. (of course Rating 1 minimum)

[Eyeless Blond]

I hope you guys are making mages pay upkeep for their spells and Magic attribute too.

[Moon-Hawk]

As for the price of commlinks: my cell-phone costs hundreds of dollars....or so I'm told, I got it for 50 bucks with a 2-year phone contract renewal.
I don't think anyone (normal people now, not shadowrunners) really pays for a cheap commlink, it's just part of a monthly bill. You can probably even get used ones for free, that some corp has "generously" collected, loaded with spyware, and donated to the public. I have no problem believing that everyone can get their hands on a crap commlink, and there also exists a market for very high-end links that people will pay a lot of money to have.

[Nightwalker450]

I hope you guys are making mages pay upkeep for their spells and Magic attribute too.

Magic isn't as technological cutting edge as software and computer systems. Mages spells only come in one grade (known and unknown), and they pay their upkeep in karma for initiaition. Hackers need some form of upkeep, otherwise with the copying of software they have 0 upkeep. All their cash can go to lifestyle, and all their karma can goto new abilities. They are currently the only occupation that stalls completely. Riggers have to repair and update drones, sammies have to buy ammo and medical expenses. Mages have spells, and initiations.

Hackers only have to reboot their commlink to fix it right now, and have a relatively lower amount of damage they take (this varies from GM to GM of course). And as stated they buy all their programs at 6, and a commlink with 6 ratings (which costs a total of 4,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) post creation, which is just the response, everything else is perfectly legit to start with), and the hacker is done.