A cripple on the Metaplanes?, Just how thoroughly do Metaplanes mimic the physical form? Options

[Morphius]

Street Magic states that the metaplanar form is based on one's physical attributes, so what if a paraplegic or quadraplegic astrally projected and traveled to the metaplanes? Would he or she then be handicapped there, as well? And would it matter if it was from something like a broken spine or a neurotoxin? Or would his or her physical stats before the handicapping would be used?

[Chibu]

I don't actually know about 4th, but theoretically the astral plane should still work about the same. That is to say, in earlier editions, one's physical attributes on the astral plane were based off their mental attributes. And, really it's more of an Idealized form of self than an actual one, otherwise everyone on the astral plane would be naked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[MarCazm]

I think so too. Cause your physical body stais at home in the wheelchair while the mind goes of to the astral plane and as long as the mind is not crippled he shouldn't be handicapped on the astral planes.

[Fortune]

Keep in mind that the Metaplanes are a separate place from normal Astral Space, and as such have their own rules that do not necessarily coincide with those of the Astral (or the Physical for that matter).

[coolgrafix]

According to existing metaplane adventure canon (i.e. Harlequin's Back), all bets are off on the metaplanes. As Fortune said, the metaplanes are NOT the Astral. They are like alternate universes similar but different than our own with divergent time/space. Like an episode of Sliders on LSD. =)

Given that on one of the metaplanes journied to in Harlequin's Back, every one's cyberware is either GONE or manifests as steampunk technology, there is no reason whatsoever to assume that a person's spinal injuries are consistent across metaplanes.

The stats would behave as written, so if you had a character who you played as paraplegic and gave him poor physical stats then you would be stuck with those. But the disability could a) manifest normally, b) manifest some other way, c) not manifest at all.

I'm guessing you're asking this out of an interest in constructing scenarios for the metaplanes as a GM?

[nezumi]

Depends on the specific metaplane. If you're going to the elemental plane of fire (as an example), no, you use your astral attributes only. However, if you're going to the King Arthur metaplane (one of many, admitedly), yes, you use your physical attributes there. The GM may also say this is based on how you get to the plane - if you are astrally projecting and put yourself there somehow, astral attributes. If you're using the metaplane portal power, you'd probably use your physical stats.

(In other words, the sky's the limit. Don't expect all planes to behave the same, so any answer I give may apply to one and not another, sort of like UV hosts.)

[Morphius]

These are good answers. And yes, I'm thinking of constructing some metaplane adventures, and I want to know what'll happen if somebody who's crippled visits a metaplane. What do you think would happen if somebody who actually had decent physical stats BEFORE they were crippled visits, say, King Arthur's metaplane?

[Morphius]

And also, am I to assume that something that heals you in the metaplanes has a good chance of healing you in reality?

[nezumi]

Again, depends on the metaplane in question. In some metaplanes the healing will carry over, in some the cripple will be the most powerful character in the party and in others the cripple may turn into a small dancing poodle, forever trapped in that form. Metaplanes were intentionally made such that they can do whatever the GM wants.

[Morphius]

Really? Hrm. Okay, so as a GM, I have a lot of freedom with them. I just don't want to break the rules TOO much, but apparently, in this case, I can write the rules even more than usual.

[BishopMcQ]

I would say it many ways it depends on how recent the act that left them handicapped was. If it was 20 years ago, the handicap has probably settled deeply into their psyche and will be reflected. If it was recent and the individual still hasn't come to grips with it, than the handicap may not be present.

[Morphius]

What if it's an individual that frequently astrally travels to avoid the handicap?

[O'Donnell Heir]

It's entirely up to the GM as most of the above have said, but I could see the character's limbs being restored to him on a metaplane, depending on the metaplane and depending on GM ruling.

[Morphius]

Okay, guys. Thanks for the input!

[swirler]

I would assume whatever works best for the game
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
heh
okay yeah I know that doenst provide much info but.. well it's something to keep in mind.

[Snow_Fox]

I know i'm blending the astral and metaplanes but in both cases your 'body' is shaped by your self immage. In the astral it's you'ree ideal and in the meta your body is affected, though not as dramatically, by what you bring with you.

More than a 'cripple' maybe being healed because her self image is health, it could go the other way.

A person who's self image is damaged could look worse.I mean Paris Hilton is too vapid to notice but what if someoine has doubts or imnage issues, they could be reflected on the plains

[swirler]

A person who's self image is damaged could look worse.I mean Paris Hilton is too vapid to notice but what if someoine has doubts or imnage issues, they could be reflected on the plains

argh!!
you said the name!!
never says the name!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

[Crusher Bob]

[...] otherwise everyone on the astral plane would be naked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

This used to be true, yes (1st and 2nd edition). I don't know if they changed it or not. But also note that you had minor control over your appearance in the astral once you got there, so you could dream yourself up some clothing, or a suit of armor, or whatever body coverings you wanted.

[Morphius]

Another question about it! What if this person was crippled through magical means, like a magical neurotoxin or something? Do you think that would make it more likely that his metaplanar (or even astral) body would be handicapped? Or perhaps it'd be restricted to the material plane?

[Crusher Bob]

In general, anything that lowers your mental stats or inflicts wound penalties will effect you on the astral. Something which simply lowered your reaction probably shouldn't effect your astral form at all.

[Snow_Fox]

the wounds might lower your stats on the plane but as for appearing croippled, that goes back to your self image.
like the aging jock who is not up to snuff anymore but who still basks in old glory

[Cabral]

I see the astral form as your subconscious image of yourself. As such, a cripple who dwells on his handicap will appear crippled on the astral (and likely has low Charisma and/or Willpower). A few karma expenditures later, he has come to realize that his physical shortcomings are purely physical and stops carrying them over with him when projecting. When this level of understanding is achieved, the astral form begins to diverge in appearance from the physical form. This peak into your ideals can be rather revealing so advanced magicians often learn Masking.

I like to consider shamanic masks, if applicable, to be in effect during astral projection.

[Fortune]

I like to consider shamanic masks, if applicable, to be in effect during astral projection.

Nice! That never occured to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Morphius]

I understand this for the Astral plane, but what about the Metaplanes, where things get more physical? I also get that it's the GM's choice and "anything could happen", but what's the general consensus? Is a cripple still handicapped on the metaplanes, with his or her new physical body?

[Crusher Bob]

Anything goes in the metaplanes.

As a sample, from the adventure Harlequin's Back (as well as I can remember anyway. Mostly what I remember was that it was a horrible railroad where all the non mages were mostly along for the ride. Except for the bits where we gleefully re-created Kirk vs the Gorn captain.

1st Metaplane:
You lose all your equipment, but your cyberware guys keeps all the effects of their cyberware, but they don' have the ware anymore. It's a sorta post apoc wasteland, 'runners beyond thunderdome or something.

Then, a steampunk western, where all your cyberware is coal powered, or something. At least the sams get guns to use in this one. If you were a troll, you were lucky enough to get a dinosaur to ride around on. The decker was still useless though. And the mages still lorded it over everyone, since a sixgun is no replacement for an ares alpha.

Then it is a Seattle runner in King Arthur's court. I must confess that we went completely off the rails at this point. You get your grenade launchers back. Most of this part of the adventure consisted of us blowing up, burning down, or running over the locals so I'm not sure what was actually supposed to happen.