Cyberlimbs 'n stuff, some discussion on mechanics and ideas Options

[Stahlseele]

the edge common sense did not make it into 4th ed either, so why bother? *g*
if you have that neato bioware that will let you not care about stun-damage, you will be fine with redlining . . just imagine doing a STR22 Power-Jump over a Building . . well, you will have to deal with the falling damage then, so i guess jumping on top of the building would be better *g*
and with the aug rules you don't need a cybertorso on a human for arms or legs with 9's across the board i think, but i ain't sure, i could be mixing something up here . .
but at least you don't need a Torso to go to your unmodified maximum, so for STR6 Limbs you won't need a Torso anymore

[krakjen]

We can use dermal sheath on cyberlimbs?
I thought the lack of skin would prevent it...

[Stahlseele]

yeah, but the character in question has arms and head left all fleshy, so there it works again and there it gives it's full bonus again ^^

[ElFenrir]

hey, wait a second...I think i get some kind of price and/or Essence discount on my sheath, since i have 3 artificial limbs. Well, in SR3 you got both the essence and nuyen discount(wasn't it 5% per limb back then?). Hell, if that's the case i save a little cash and nuyen right there. And yeah, i figure i'd get the arms nice and covered up(can you even sheath your face? I mean, wouldn't that be...difficult? That's the one problem i had with the dermal plating, i didn't want to take the uber-massive penalties for having, like, armor grafted to my face. That's a bit hard to hide. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) )

Torso and legs can be covered, sure, but the obvious cyberskull/third eye in forehead/armorface i might keep away from. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

not sure ifg the discount rule made it over to SR4 from 3rd, but yeah, 5% for every full limb sounds about right . .
and with dermal sheath your whole body gets covered . . well, all your fleshy bits at least . .

[Wesley Street]

I've got a cyberlimb related question and rather than starting a new thread I thought I'd shanghai yours. Boo-yah! Anyway, I have Augmentation, read it, and am still unclear on one question. Is it possible to wirelessly hack a cyberlimb? To, say, make its owner choke himself or shoot himself or what not. If I understand what was stated, one has to go through the limb owner's commlink. Then what?

[ElFenrir]

Hmm...I could actually wonder this, too. I THINK, if i recall reading somewhere here before, that hacking limbs is a rather difficult thing to do. There might be a few security devices you can put on them as well; but i'm curious to know the official things here, i'm not too Wireless Matrix saavy myself yet.

That would suck. The last thing i need is someone hacking my guy's commlink so he starts delivering 12P kicks to his own rear end. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Or start sending him to attack teammates.

[Stahlseele]

no, as far as i understood the wireless capabilities of limbs are only for diagnostic data-transfer and maybe a software/firmware upgrade or something like fine-tuning . . the wireless has no control over the moving parts of the limbs . .
and as soon as a GM starts with something like that i would kill every wireless in my close proximity and walk into one of those no-go-without-broadcast zones . .

[krakjen]

I'm pretty sure it's said somewhere that cyberware signal is set at 0 (so 3m), as it's only used for diagnostics/settings and stuffs and it's more than enough to communicate with the user's commlink/PAN.
You'd have to go through the commlink security....

[Squinky]

Just popping in to say that I am pretty certain the discount rules from 3rd didn't make it into 4th.

But if you are really jonzing for more essence, drop some bp's into bio-compatibility and make your cyber a "cyber-suite".

[krakjen]

Wouldn't a player creating a custom cybersuite to feel his needs be seen as an obvious attempt at munchkinery ?

[ElFenrir]

I guess it depends. I mean, if a player tries to, say, create a suite with Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle Replacement 2, 2 retractable spurs, 2 reaction enhancers, and ruthenium polymer skin with tricked out cybereyes and the thing cost 4.5 essence, then yeah. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

But i think certain ones could be more doable. I guess if a player/gm works together to figure something out, it's cool. I just built mine from the ground up; it's a pretty powerful set of ware so i feel justified in letting it cost as much essence as it does.

But i am still tinkering around, especially if the discount didn't make it over. Having to pay full price for Muscle Toner and Augmentation(i want my guy's arms at least SOMEWHAT within the ballpark of 'catching up), and it's ONLY on his arms, hurts the wallet pretty bad. Guess it happens, though. Honestly, the torso and legs together aren't that bad at all; 4.5 essence for some really, really nice things in there. Ok, so that's like...75% of his essence, but still.

And i did take Biocompatibility. I had to.

It's the damned Wired Reflexes that are killing him. I want more passes, at least one extra one, and they don't have the nice Boosteds anymore. I suppose i could somehow fiddle with him to give him a ton of Edge that he can burn at whim for extra passes and get a couple Reaction Enhancers instead, or drugs...but he's already implant addicted, i don't need to get a Jazz addiction on top of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I gotta say, though, this is fun. Something about 'literally building a character' is pretty refreshing. I wrote a short story as well from his PoV when he ended up with these new toys, and thus implant addicted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[krakjen]

Don't forget there are actual rules to make cybersuites:

Gamemasters are encouraged to develop their own cyberware suites, as best fits their campaigns.
Cyberware suites have Cost and Essence Cost Multipliers of 0.9 when adding up the integrated individual cyberware systems.
These multipliers are cumulative with the modifiers offered by higher grade cyberware (see Cyberware and Bioware Grades, p. 303, SR4).

So no "I wanna be a cyberzombie" suite for 1000¥ and 1 point of essence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Moon-Hawk]

I require anyone (including myself, the GM) who wants to invent a cybersuite come up with a short (comparable to what's in Augmentation) little bit describing an actual marketable purpose for the suite, which includes at least a passable explanation of why the suite contains what it does and doesn't contain other things that might fit with the stated purpose. Guideline: If it takes longer than 20 minutes you're putting too much work into it.

Anyone who does that has contributed to the game world sufficiently to pay for their suite-munchiness. (really, 10% isn't a game breaker)

[ElFenrir]

So, if, for example, someone designed a cybersuite that was...ok, really powerful when it came to hitting with Clubs and Throwing(really strong cyberarms and torso), and Reaction Enhancers. And it turns out, it sounds like it would be actually ok for the Cyber Baseball League in the UCAS(extra reaction to catch? Batting power? Throwing power?). Would you let that slide into the game? (heh, slide into the game...no pun intended (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) )

[Moon-Hawk]

So, if, for example, someone designed a cybersuite that was...ok, really powerful when it came to hitting with Clubs and Throwing(really strong cyberarms and torso), and Reaction Enhancers. And it turns out, it sounds like it would be actually ok for the Cyber Baseball League in the UCAS(extra reaction to catch? Batting power? Throwing power?). Would you let that slide into the game? (heh, slide into the game...no pun intended (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) )

Absolutely, great example. With just a touch more work I would allow that, and it would be great for someone who wants to make a sam who beats people and throws grenades. It needs a clever name, and a quick explanation of why it has what it does. (which you've pretty much already done) As an example, a GM might look at this and say, "but a baseball player suite should include the ability to run fast, why doesn't this?", so this write-up should probably include a note that while running fast would be nice, it would require adding massive amounts of cyberware to the suite so it's just not worth it, and if you hit well in the first place you can stroll casually anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So what do we get? My game-world gets a new bit of flavor. This character has, in all probability, gained some really cool backstory stuff about being a ballplayer (or an aspiring one), possibly not, that's okay too. I have a player who is involved in the game and reading the rules. And he gets a little bit of a bonus to his character, and he gets to feel like he really pulled one over on the old GM. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Everybody wins.

[krakjen]

They would have to add the Louisville Slugger (or maybe Yankee Pitcher) Optimized Cyberlimbs then.

[Moon-Hawk]

They would have to add the Louisville Slugger (or maybe Yankee Pitcher) Optimized Cyberlimbs then.

Sure, it would make sense. And the player probably wants it anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[krakjen]

I don't think IP augmentation would make sense though.
You're not gonna strike the ball twice...
Only reaction enhancers should go in that suite.

[Moon-Hawk]

I don't think IP augmentation would make sense though.
You're not gonna strike the ball twice...
Only reaction enhancers should go in that suite.

I agree. The point of the rule is to stop people from just cherry-picking exactly what cyberware they want for their character, slapping "suite" on it, and getting a free discount at chargen. Odds are, no one will get all of their cyberware in one big suite, but most heavy-cyber characters should be able to find a "theme" in their selection and be pretty close to making a good suite.

[Stahlseele]

I gotta say, though, this is fun. Something about 'literally building a character' is pretty refreshing. I wrote a short story as well from his PoV when he ended up with these new toys, and thus implant addicted.

yeah, this is why i have more fun designing characters(for SR3 and utilizing mcmackies NSRCG3) than i have actually playing(because i don't get to play anymore)
you change one little minor thing . . and you can start over with half the design . . and if half the design has changed? well, you can change the rest again, and so on, and so on and so on ad nauseum *g*
i would make a cyber-suite with legs for people who had "accidents"
the torso would come it if the "accidents" were more severe or the person wants to do more than just take strolls in the park again . .
and if the basic design is there?
why the hell should optimized limbs not come in that suite? there's probably a good demand for it . .

[ElFenrir]

The cool thing is, the ''Sports Suites'' could be really easy fits. I remember that recent Nike commercial(well, they play it over here, anyway), with the guys playing that basically are CG'd to have Raptor-style cyber legs, and they're running around the field really fast, jumping, doing fancy kicks on the ball, etc. (They catch with the commercial is ''until then...'' and then some kind of uber sports shoe.) It's a pretty cool commercial though, and i can easily see a Soccer player suite with a torso and the Raptor legs with the running and power augmentations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[krakjen]

You mean this?

[ElFenrir]

Yes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) That is awesome. Puma, too, not Nike. My bad there. But yeah, after seeing that, i have that perfect idea how someone with Kid Stealth/Raptor Legs would run, jump, and kick like. And it's pretty damn wicked. While i think my guy will stick to normal legs when wanting to stay low key, being able to switch out for those if the need comes up is made of awesome.

[krakjen]

Yeah, that's definitely a good example for what it would look/move like.
The only thing I'm not sure is the double knee, I find it quite weird...

And for your guy, modular cyberlimbs ftw!