[X] My Assistant

[cryptoknight]

And, as has been mentioned, if typos make a preview a joke, what does errata after errata make the entire game line?

This says it all. That and the fact that even though I knew it to be a joke, I also have very low expectations for whatever we get next with SR... So this wasn't outside the realm of possibility, and I still don't believe that it is entirely a joke.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

So this wasn't outside the realm of possibility, and I still don't believe that it is entirely a joke.

More than just taking the opportunity to pimp Runners’ Companion, I wanted to do this in such a way that it showcased how robust the basic SR4 system is, and presage not only some of the options that will be in the book but also the core rules framework fans can expect. The joke being not the rules themselves, but the context and the presentation, I wanted the rules to be as solid as possible, both to be convincing (gotcha) and to provide a baseline for those of you who did like them to expand on them in your own game (who knows I might get round to doing that myself some time).

Emphasis mine.

Technically, said rules are official optional rules.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

The optimist in me wants to believe that this is an incredible sign: an SR developer that is SO against the idea of PC dragons that he assumes the mere mention of it will be taken as a joke, even outside of April Fool's day.

But the pessimist in me looks at the "proof" of the joke that he cited, which was incredibly lame. Typos are supposed to clue us in that he wasn't serious? We're supposed to magically know that Obsidimen come at a later point in the mana cycle? Honestly, this seemed to me like the guy DIDN'T intend it as an April Fool's prank, and was just looking for some way to backpedal after seeing what an outrage he was causing.

The even more cynical part of me wonders if maybe it wasn't intentional. It seems like SR has become quite a different game, and I'm not sure they even want the old-timer fans around anymore. I know if I were new to a gaming company, I'd feel kind of restricted in what I could do if there were legions of fans bitching about how the game needs to be more "cyberpunk" all the time, and there needed to be more mohawks in the art, and the art needed to be done by some artist that wasn't doing art for the company anymore. But I can think of few ways to alienate old-time SR fans more than by introducing dragon PCs. The game just stops being the gritty street-level cyberpunk it once was at that point, and the game's been straying from that old SR feel for a long time now. Maybe the "heated discussions" that happened over this were an intentional effort to stratify the fan base so the old-timers would give up and retreat to their horded copies of SR1 and let the new developers introduce teleporting gunslingers that can turn into smoke, or whatever.

So I guess that's maybe getting a little far-fetched, but I think the idea that this was an innocent April Fool's prank that we should all just be delighted by is equally far-fetched. On the one hand, yes, it did seem a little soon for a preview. But on the other hand, it would not be out of the realm of possibility for Unwired to get postponed. And this whole thing is in the context of a game that has given us drake PCs in the past, not to mention the Xbox game, which DID sound like a prank. A few people can go on about how the rest of us are "over-reacting," and how this was such an amazingly clever prank because it bore none of the characteristics of a prank (like jocularity, a point, wit, or a happy ending). But I think we should expect the developers to show at least a modicum of respect for us. I bought SR4, SM, and Arsenal, but that was in no way an inevitability. I bought them because I was hearing good things about them, and what I saw looked good--I didn't pre-order anything, or buy anything until I'd had a chance to check it out. Now I can't trust the previews. If some other sucker I know picks up a future SR book without looking at it, I'll check it out and maybe decide to buy it if it seems decent. But this move DOES affect how I make that sort of decision.

I think the idea of a prank was ill-considered anyway. Why would a company pull a prank on its consumers? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm not looking for them to be my friends, who I do joke around with. I just want them to produce solid SR products (hopefully on a timeline that satiates my nerdiness, but as long as the products are good, I'm happy). I don't need to be in awe of their astounding wit, and I most certainly don't need to be mocked for the expectations which have been lowered by SR in the past.

[Stalker-x]

It could've been funny. It got lame.

QFT.

I don't mean to repeat everything that Larme and Zen Shooter 01 have said about the lameness of this joke. I'd just like to add that, what actually annoyed me most was this crappy "OMG!!!!111ROFLMAO"-posting by Taylor. I don't care about the joke not being funny or kept up too long, and I might even ignore that this was not an April's Fool... but that posting really disturbs me. As Rotbart pointed out, none of the points listed by Tayler can really claim ultimate validity, and this arrogant undertone of "Harharhar, you should have known better" just p*sses me off.
"Grow some sense of humour," you say? Rumour has it that Germans don't have any by birth (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . Consequently, regard this posting as an attempt for nourishing your belief in national stereotypes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[quentra]

Frankly, I was looking forward to the dragon PCs. Screw you, cyberpunk. If I wanted that, I can play 2020.

[bclements]

This r serious players. This r serious thread.

Shadowrun: Serious Business

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Moon-Hawk]

"Harharhar, you should have known better"

Harharhar? Isn't that the name of the wookie from KOTOR 2?*


*no, it isn't, it was Hanharr

[Stalker-x]

Frankly, I was looking forward to the dragon PCs. Screw you, cyberpunk. If I wanted that, I can play 2020.

SR has never been cyberpunk alone and even the cyberpunk parts have started to melt and merge long time ago (that is: not just since Augmentation (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

[Starmage21]

Frankly, I was looking forward to the dragon PCs. Screw you, cyberpunk. If I wanted that, I can play 2020.

QFT

dont forget about v3

[hobgoblin]

QFT

dont forget about v3

some people over on vfte.cyberpunk.co.uk would say that v3 have strayed to far into magical transhumanism land...

me, i dont much care as for me cyberpunk (in the pink mohawk and japanacorp uber alles definition) died with the 80's...

these days the ideal of cyberpunk is so individual that its not even funny.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

I'm not saying I want it solely cyberpunk, but I really liked the particular mix they had back in the early days. I'm willing to change with the times, if for no other reason than because I can't find enough SR2 players. And I've really liked the SR4 books so far, at least for what they are.

[Larme]

I'm not saying to ignore it. I'm saying to drop the dramatics, get your fist out of the air, and save the heartfelt righteous indignation for shit that matters.

This was an April Fool's prank. Was it a great one? Not really, but it's not like it was done out of hatred, it's not like they lied to our serious detriment, it's not like they lied and fleeced us for a zillion bucks, it's not like they posted the preview and opened pre-orders (and then told us what was or wasn't really in the book), etc, etc, etc. It was a joke that some folks didn't think was funny.

No blood, no foul. People may or may not have appreciated the attempt at humor, but genuinely holding it against the folks is taking life in general a little too seriously, is all I'm saying.

Criticizing a joke as being a failure for not being funny is not drama. Pointing out that the elements of truth in the joke which made it more believeable, i.e. bad editing, are actually not things to be proud of is not drama. Criticizing the joke for being more a laugh at the fan's expense than actual humor that everyone can share in is not drama. The fact is, Catalyst is a professional company. They should not engage in internet trolling to make fun of their fans. Making fun of themselves and their own products? Sure. But showing us something that was designed to look somewhat plausible and then coming back with 'YHBT lol' is not something I expect to see from a real company that sells actual products. Is it drama to suggest that trolls are beneath Catalyst? If so, send me off to the Shaekspeare festival. But you can't reduce the relevance of my complaints simply by claiming that they are dramatic.

No blood, no foul? So they would need to actually injure us, likely giving rise to legal claims, perhaps even a class action, before we can complain? Now that's a joke, good one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) I'm not saying we should boycott the game, or "hold it against" them. I generally hate people who come on this board just to shit on what is generally a great game. But I feel fully justified in taking them to task for this abortion of an April Fool's Day prank.

[Kyoto Kid]

...remember this?

March 15th 2005

...and at first, everyone thought that was prepping for an upcoming April Fools joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[hobgoblin]

given earlier history of a over the top joke about going d20, im not surprised...

[paws2sky]

I had a big, long rambling post cooked up, but I decided not to post it because... well, it wasn't exactly productive and has more or less al;ready been said by others.

I'll just leave it at the key points:

I'm disappointed. I (really) like getting fooled on April Fools Day. And for the record, that's 4/1, not 4/2. And you general let people off the hook as soon as its obvious you got them (or by the end of the days, at most). This prank was full of fail on so many levels.

I'd rather have good, reasonably balanced rules that go unusued most fo the time than half-ass ones that "everyone" wants.

So...

Who was talking about brewing these up into a proper set of house rules?

-paws

[Kyoto Kid]

given earlier history of a over the top joke about going d20, im not surprised...

...exactly why I'm still skeptical. That and SURGE.

[Particle_Beam]

I think this posting describes it the best:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=660720

(As far as the question whether this is a joke or a preview is concerned, my vote is on "neither" - I suspect Catalyst is testing the waters, so to speak, to see if Dragon PCs are acceptable by enough players/GMs. If not, they can always claim it was a joke.)

Now they're just saying: "Haha, no, really it was just a joke (hopefully, they'll believe it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) )."

While we're all: "Meh, what a lame joke from them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif) "

[Ryakin]

My hats off to you gents, well done.

And for all the people spewing bile over how they pulled off an April fools joke just remember the old adage:

"You can't please all the people, all the time"

[Particle_Beam]

You may say it's bile. Others meanwhile say it's just the sad truth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pumpkin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Moon-Hawk]

And for all the people spewing bile over how they pulled off an April fools joke just remember the old adage:

No bile here. My only objection is that people somehow think a prank pulled NOT on April 1st can somehow be an April Fool's joke. They can use the proximity of April 1st in their joke, but it is clearly not, itself, an April Fool's joke. Just a regular joke. Carry on.

[Kyoto Kid]

...proximity only counts in hand grenades, AAMs, nuclear warheads, and other forms of explosive ordinance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Larme]

I agree, it isn't bile. We would just like to see jokes, not trolls. This was a thing that was designed to stir up controversy so that the people who wrote it could sit back and laugh at all the people who were provoked by their deliberately provocative post. That's the definition of a troll. Catalyst should be above that kind of thing. This is not a taking internets seriously kind of thing, they are not an internet company, they are an old fashioned print media company, and they should realize that when they decide how to frame their "jokes."

[Moon-Hawk]

...proximity only counts in hand grenades, AAMs, nuclear warheads, and other forms of explosive ordinance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

And area jammers. And, um, things that are really smelly....I guess. And wet dogs. Which is sort of a combination of explosive ordnance (no i, KK), and something really smelly.

[stevebugge]

I wasn't sure if this one was ajoke or not. But it doesn't bug me much.

It still wasn't as good as the year they posted the preview for the SR d20 version though, that had me laughing for hours.

[BetaFlame]

I dont really care if the dragons are really going to PCs or not.

I just think the joke sucked on many levels.

Like.. the complete lack of humor.