Rigging a Motorcycle, Sounds like fun or Terminally bad idea? Options

[CanvasBack]

Right off the bat, it seems like a bad idea. If the Rigger's body goes limp after assuming the body of a vehicle, it seems like that makes a bike a terminally bad idea. On the other hand, I remember some of the older supplements talking about go-gangs and combat bikers with VCRs. Are there modifications you could make to the bike so that rigging is viable, or are you simply stuck not assuming the body if you go the bike route?

[Dim Sum]

Hi, CanvasBack. This topic has been deabted to death in previous threads. I don't know how to link you to those past threads so I'd suggest you do a search for them. :D

[CanvasBack]

Well, before I posted and after your reply just to make sure I ran a search but nothing came up. I put in Rigging Motorcycles and Riggers and Motorcycles. Is it possible those older threads were deleted?

[Ol' Scratch]

Rigger 3 includes the option you need to make a motorcycle riggable/dronable. It's called something like a Motor-Gyro Stabilization or something like that. It's in the Customization chapter. I don't have my book handy to give a page reference, though.

I seem to remember that both the Datajack Port and Rigger Conversion for bikes is double the normal cost, too, even in the core rulebook... and that (logically) seems to suggest that it includes the extra "stuff" to make it riggable in that fashion.

[Fortune]

[Dim Sum]

Canvas, you're right - I just checked back through the all the old posts as well and the current archives don't go back far enough to when the thread I started was active.

Basically, bikes can be rigged - various people had various ways to incorporate the effect of a "limp" rigger in their games. I took what I felt were the best ideas (apologies to those I can't give due credit due to my poor memory) which are essentially as follows:

a) the bike has a gyro stabilizer built in when modified to accept a vehicle rig. Think of this an active "black box" of sorts that records all telemetry data and passes this on to the rigged rider.

b) the gyro data is translated by the rider's VCR into muscle movements to correct the body posture from second to second to maintain optimal balance when riding.

Hope that helps.

[thunderchild]

[thunderchild]

[Adarael]

Why not just have a closed-top bike like the Kundalini Shiva in CP2020, or the ECOBAN police motorcycles in Wonderful Days (a wonderfully cyberpunk anime... absolutely beautiful)?

Strap in before you engage the vcr, so you don't flop around. Seems simple enough.

[thunderchild]

Because Bikers like the wind in their hair and the freedom of the bike. Bikers dont want 2 wheeled cages.

[Lantzer]

Makes sense up until you remember that a rigger can't feel the
wind in his hair and has as much 'freedom' as when he's rigging a car.

I'd personally stop with the virtual dashboard on a (non-enclosed) bike.

[BaronJ]

In my games, I've read the gyro a different way, since the book says it enables bikes to be droned without falling over.

My way has the rigger essentially strapping herself into the bike (leg-irons to keep the legs attached to the bike, and her hands in essentially boxing-gloves that are also attached to the bike), and then the bike has been redesigned to accomodate the person lying on the bike. Judging from the current configuration of rice-burners that race on my street, it's almost like that now, just a bit of automation and it's a done deal.

The gyro is just that, a gyroscope that tells the bike how it's oriented in relation to the level. Kind of like an autopilot in an airplane. This allows the bike to 'drive itself' without that nasty 'top-heavy' problem. The rider/rigger is just dead-weight that the bike compensates for. Now for rigged go-gangs, the firing a gun over the shoulder while rigging a bike is much more difficult, but you just cut out to virtual dashboard mode, turn and fire, then jump back into the machine. Tedious, but it's a free action to switch modes (at least in my games).

[Xirces]

I don't own R3, but was absolutely convinced that SR3/R2 and earlier specifically prohibited VCR use of bikes.

That was until I looked it up in said books. Was it an SR1 rule, or did I imagine it?

Anyway - I'll get my coat.

[CanvasBack]

Well, it looks like it's possible, just a bit more expensive and much more work getting a bike put together. I don't see the average go-ganger with a VCR, particularly since you'll have to be in virtual dash to shoot a pistol or strike with a katana (anybody else remember Black Rain?). Maybe the bigger gangs like the Ancients or the Hell's Angels would make the investment, since they do make cross-continent trips more often.

There was a certain Steve Jackson game that I participated in years back and just to be different I made a biker, I kind of wondered if I could re-do him in SR and if going the Rigger route would be worth it.

[Dim Sum]

[SykoBear]

Yes, I'm back, crusading for my horrendous interpretation of rigging bikes.

CanvasBack, my character in Dim Sum's current campaign happens to be an ex-go-ganger as well, who has moved up in the world, but maintains his love for motorcycles. As I recall, I was the one who stirred up the whole mess the last time, so let me just set out where Dim Sum and I agreed to disagree.

Dim Sum is correct in saying that the "black box" mechanism of a rigged bike allows muscular correction. Where Dim Sum and I disagree is extent, which leads to two interpretations, both of which are feasible, and both of which are consistent with canon rules:

(1) The "black box" mechanism only "freezes" the muscles of the rider, and corrects the balance of the rider to the minimum extent necessary to execute a manuever. The motorcycle compensates to a large extent for the rider's minimal movements. This is the interpretation Dim Sum uses for his game, and I am cool with it. The implication is that some motorcycle stunts are flat out impossible without either jacking out or doing a "half-and-half" simsense/real world interface (and taking the appropriate hefty penalties).

(2) The "black box" mechanism not only controls the movements of the bike, but also gross muscular movement of the rider, as necessary and appropriate. This is my favoured interpretation, since it allows for the rider to do nasty stunts like standing on the seat of the bike, kicking a person while still maintaining balance on the bike, etc while still rigged, and with no penalties.

It's really how your GM wants to interpret the rules. As far as I am concerned, it's still darned fun to rig a bike, no matter which interpretation you use.

[Dim Sum]

As I mentioned earlier, there were a lot suggestions made to my (old) thread and Baron J's idea was one of them, which I discarded. I prefer to see the rigger as being one with his bike as Thunderchild puts it and the canon rules specifically provide for a rigger being able to interact with the physical world without having to "come out" of the machine to shoot a gun, then "dive back into" the machine. The rigger just has a very large TN penalty to do anything in the "real" world while rigged but he could turn on his bike and shoot his SMG while jacked in.

Xirces, I think you may be right about SR1 not permitting bikes to be rigged but I don't recall (my 1st edition has long since fallen apart) but SR2 and SR3 both stipulate you can rig a bike and there enough references to rigged combat bikers to dispel any notion that you can't.

[Dim Sum]

Eeeek, SykoBear is back! :eek:

Your current character is an ex-go-ganger???!!! Hmm, that somehow slipped by me completely! Must be the bad Mexican accent! :D

[SykoBear]

Yes. That was before the Renraku Arcology incident. Way before. You were probably distracted thinking up new and inventive ways of killing off the characters.

[Dim Sum]

Kill player characters?? Moi???!!! :eek: