Burner CommLinks..., From the "Less Shadows" thread Options

[CanRay]

Unless said Corporate Shill has a BTL monkey, but that's another story altogether...

[Shiloh]

Right now, it seems pretty much up to interpretation whether or not a hacker can force a hcked commlink to put people into VR. I know there'll be ghosthacking rules in Unwired, though, which wouldn't really make much sense if you couldn't force people into VR to play that psychotropic simsense. Nor would simsense spam in spam zones. People don't usually walk around in VR.

You need simsense for VR, neh? Do most people have Simsense capability? I can see corporate highflyers having DNI, but not your average wageslave, burger flipper, insurance salesman, housespouse or joytoy. Maybe that's a misread. Most people will have AR glasses or lenses, and AR gloves or some camera-based gesture-recognition for activity. No way you can force those people into VR.

[hermit]

And to kill them (I have to check that one to confirm) they MUST be hot sim...

Nope. In cold sim, you do just stun damage, but you can overflow stun into physical if you just slap them often enough.

You need simsense for VR, neh? Do most people have Simsense capability? I can see corporate highflyers having DNI, but not your average wageslave, burger flipper, insurance salesman, housespouse or joytoy. Maybe that's a misread. Most people will have AR glasses or lenses, and AR gloves or some camera-based gesture-recognition for activity. No way you can force those people into VR.

Then why does Runner Havens and the BBB even mention SimSense-based Spam? it would not make sense to generate this if noone could process it to begin with (and those who could propably could also afford the spam filter to not have to go through it)?

Besides, since getting wasted on Beetles/Simsense is a very popular pasttime with the underclass, they need that sim module anyway. Beetles will do them a load of good if they can't have simsense, will they? And at some 500 Bucks, it's not that expensive either. Besides, you can always nick someone else's.

Besides, at least the joytoy of course needs a sim module for it's line of work - to slot the personafixes it's customers want.

[Blade]

Actually it's stated that most people experience AR with trodes, which means DNI and probably SimModule. Forcing these guys into VR could be possible, forcing them into HotSim is something entirely different, since HotSim requires a hardware modification.

Don't forget that you're considering different things here :
* Input mode : keyboard, AR Gloves or DNI (SimModule not necessary)
* Output mode : AR glasses, screen or DNI (SimModule necessary)
* Access mode : AR or VR, which only difference is that in VR mode you're disconnected from the real world (Real World Sensory input blocked and RAS blocks physical actions, RAS override is a hardware modification).
* Sim Mode if using a SimModule : Cold Sim or Hot Sim (VR mode only). Hot Sim modification is hardware.

[wanderer_king]

BTLs are popular to the underclass... but probably not to slots at the corp mall. There are probably some, but they aren't that common. As for the intended scenario, as this is a commlink from the stuffershack for one day dope pushing at a wage mall, I highly doubt that he is gonna install a SIM module/rig... and if they came intergral they wouldn't cost some much extra.....

[hermit]

Actually it's stated that most people experience AR with trodes, which means DNI and probably SimModule. Forcing these guys into VR could be possible, forcing them into HotSim is something entirely different, since HotSim requires a hardware modification.

Don't forget that you're considering different things here :
* Input mode : keyboard, AR Gloves or DNI (SimModule not necessary)
* Output mode : AR glasses, screen or DNI (SimModule necessary)
* Access mode : AR or VR, which only difference is that in VR mode you're disconnected from the real world (Real World Sensory input blocked and RAS blocks physical actions, RAS override is a hardware modification).
* Sim Mode if using a SimModule : Cold Sim or Hot Sim (VR mode only). Hot Sim modification is hardware.

Again, you don't need them in hot sim to kill them, you just have to overflow their stun monitor.

BTLs are popular to the underclass... but probably not to slots at the corp mall.

Why? Because good people don't do drugs?

There are probably some, but they aren't that common. As for the intended scenario, as this is a commlink from the stuffershack for one day dope pushing at a wage mall, I highly doubt that he is gonna install a SIM module/rig... and if they came intergral they wouldn't cost some much extra.....

The burner won't have a Sim module, most likely, being the most basic of basic links there is. An ordinary underclass link surely will, though.

[CanRay]

Why? Because good people don't do drugs?

No, because good people will do higher-class drugs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

*Sniff* BTLs, how plebian! Where's my Awakened Drugs made from the rare and exotic creatures of South America?

[hermit]

In fiction, most higher-ups use Beetles because it shows no side effects as a compund drug would. Also, some (okay, the Bernard guy from Striper Assassin) actually plug them in just to feel like they're in control.

Though, licking awakened toads sure is a lot less plebejan than slotting a beetle ...

[Shiloh]

'Trodes aren't DNI, are they? And if you don't kill them the first time round, while they're in AR (i.e. walking around on the street), won't they just sweep the 'trodenet off their head, curse and reboot their 'Link? You won't *get* to slap them silly cos they're not in full immersion.

For my money, Simsense spam *doesn't* make any sense, because pretty much everyone has effective spam filters; all the fluff fiction that springs to mind talks about tuning them out. Sure the occasional one gets through, same as spam mail nowadays.

[hobgoblin]

one thing about payment, certified credsticks.

yep, they are still around...

[Blade]

'Trodes aren't DNI, are they?

Yes, they are.

[Tarantula]

Again, you don't need them in hot sim to kill them, you just have to overflow their stun monitor.

Again, people don't need a sim module. Most people probably would have glasses/goggles/contacts for their display, and trodes for their input. Neither requires a sim module, and they can operate in AR mode by thinking at their commlink, while risking absolutely nothing in regards to getting their brain-fried.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Right now, it seems pretty much up to interpretation whether or not a hacker can force a hcked commlink to put people into VR. I know there'll be ghosthacking rules in Unwired, though, which wouldn't really make much sense if you couldn't force people into VR to play that psychotropic simsense.

How would that not make sense? Damaging and psychotropic ICE only work on someone using hot sim; people use hot sim because (a) it makes them better at hacking, though more vulnerable or (b) they enjoy it. Plus if you could force someone to use hot sim then Black Hammer would do it automatically.

Nor would simsense spam in spam zones. People don't usually walk around in VR.

Simsense is described as being "the easiest and most common way to get your AR fix" (p 209 in English, dunno about German). So instead of earbuds, eyeglasses, force-feedback underwear and a scratch-n-sniff wheel, you get stuff through simsense. It's still AR, because you're operating in the real world, but you also get to see a 5m tall Tracy Monroe pointing at your wang and laughing, followed by an offer for ch3.ap v1a!gra

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

For my money, Simsense spam *doesn't* make any sense, because pretty much everyone has effective spam filters; all the fluff fiction that springs to mind talks about tuning them out. Sure the occasional one gets through, same as spam mail nowadays.

I bet that there's a rapid and profitable arms race between spam filters (Firewall) and spam filter bypassing (Exploit) though.

Also, based on Hermit, I'm looking at Black Hammer a little differently. The rules are badly laid out and self-contradictory. If you're in cold sim, it does Stun like Blackout, but then once you're unconscious it keeps hitting you until you die? Dude! What's the point of not being in hot sim then?

[Jaid]

Also, based on Hermit, I'm looking at Black Hammer a little differently. The rules are badly laid out and self-contradictory. If you're in cold sim, it does Stun like Blackout, but then once you're unconscious it keeps hitting you until you die? Dude! What's the point of not being in hot sim then?

the point is that they have to get through your stun monitor first, which means if you have a buddy around he can yank the plug out of your head (or jam the signal, or whatever) which does not require any test at all, and instead of getting your brains turned into mush you instead take more stun damage from dumpshock... net result, you come out of it with maybe 8-9 boxes of stun, rather than 8-9 boxes of physical. sounds like a good deal to me.

[hermit]

Simsense is described as being "the easiest and most common way to get your AR fix"

Okay. So Simsense works in AR. so you could stun someone by overloading their brains in AR? Or couldn't you? I get the feeling this doesn't work very much coherently ....

[wanderer_king]

Trodes: This net/headband of electrodes and ultrasound emitters enables the user to experience simsense and are used with a sim module. Trodes are often concealed under headbands, hats, or wigs.

RAW P 318.


So, if your average corp jock is walking around the mall, he may or may not be using trodes, but trodes do require a Sim Module.


P.S. If you use Blackout you cannot kill them, as blackout doesn't overflow.... and doing this to random people at the slot mall is really bad idea....

[wanderer_king]

Trodes: This net/headband of electrodes and ultrasound emitters enables the user to experience simsense and are used with a sim module. Trodes are often concealed under headbands, hats, or wigs.

RAW P 318.


So, if your average corp jock is walking around the mall, he may or may not be using trodes, but trodes do require a Sim Module.


P.S. If you use Blackout you cannot kill them, as blackout doesn't overflow.... and doing this to random people at the slot mall is really bad idea....

[Cthulhudreams]

Why people can and CHOOSE to be affected by biofeedback and simsense is an open question that the books don't really answer.

[Wakshaani]

Right now there aren't any guidelines concerning the rating of the commlink and firewall of Joe Average. Until then, it's up to the GM depending on two things : game balance (how easy he wants the hacking to be) and fluff consistency (if the GM thinks hackers are common, it'd be ridiculous if everybody paid with rating 1 commlinks).

Well, there're guidelines, but not *official* guidelines.

In SR 4th, "2 is the new 3" as they say.

Give Bob Salaryman a rating 2 Commlink, with rating 2 programs across the board and call it a day. Corporate Guys and security folks will have 3's, as will the techieguys.

Stuff over that's rare.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Okay. So Simsense works in AR. so you could stun someone by overloading their brains in AR? Or couldn't you? I get the feeling this doesn't work very much coherently ....

I'm pretty sure you can't. You're basically just using simsense in lieu of the audiovisual and tactile items (screens/image links, speakers, haptics) and you get emotive stuff too but it isn't strong enough to do stun. AR should be safer but less powerful than VR, essentially.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Why people can and CHOOSE to be affected by biofeedback and simsense is an open question that the books don't really answer.

Unless you are a criminal or someone dealing with criminals, your chances of a malicious simsense-based attack are really low. Most likely someone playing a simsense rollercoaster is far safer than someone riding an actual rollercoaster. And then you have experiences like weird BTL porn scenarios, or even regular porn, or being part of a SWAT team or a Viking raid, or being one of those flying-squirrel-suit skydivers. Sure there's the small chance that someone is going to brainhack you, but that chance is lower than that of someone stabbing you with a knife, or running you over with a car.

As for hackers and riggers doing it that way, doing it with the safety off works better -- extra dice, lower threshold, more IPs, whatever. Sure it's more dangerous, but you also get an edge over your opponent.

[hermit]

Trodes: This net/headband of electrodes and ultrasound emitters enables the user to experience simsense and are used with a sim module. Trodes are often concealed under headbands, hats, or wigs.

RAW P 318.


So, if your average corp jock is walking around the mall, he may or may not be using trodes, but trodes do require a Sim Module.


P.S. If you use Blackout you cannot kill them, as blackout doesn't overflow.... and doing this to random people at the slot mall is really bad idea....

Of course, you can also use a standard issue attack program. or black hammer and attack them in cold sim mode.

And if everybody and their brother is using trodes, everybody and their brother have a sim module, so it's safe to assume most 'links come with one.

Why people can and CHOOSE to be affected by biofeedback and simsense is an open question that the books don't really answer.

That's where my disbelief really twitches and fights it's suspension, yes.

Unless you are a criminal or someone dealing with criminals, your chances of a malicious simsense-based attack are really low.

Yeah, like Simsense-based Spam.

Most likely someone playing a simsense rollercoaster is far safer than someone riding an actual rollercoaster.

Because in 64, some millions of people died in freak roller coaster disasters collectively known as 'the crash', whereas the Matrix always offered a safe alternative?

As for hackers and riggers doing it that way, doing it with the safety off works better -- extra dice, lower threshold, more IPs, whatever. Sure it's more dangerous, but you also get an edge over your opponent.

Unless, of course, that opponent happens to be a Technomancer, but meh.

[CanRay]

Unless, of course, that opponent happens to be a Technomancer, but meh.

Oh, come on. We both know that "Technomancers" are just a Corporate and Goverment Boogyman in order to crack down even further on individual rights through fearmongering!

[hermit]

Of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)