Distance Strike and Vicious Blow, Combat Maneuvers/Options + Adept Powers Options

[toturi]

I'm not too convinced that Distance Strike can be combined with Vicious Blow or Called Shot or any other combat maneuver or option. Luckily my game is temporarily on hold. What do you guys think? What combinations of combat maneuvers/options can be combined with adept powers?

[Dende]

I would think any that make logical sense together...
Surely not Killing Hands and Missile Mastery...that is just stupid...
But Smashing Blow and Viscious Blow could go well together to take that door out faster.

[mfb]

you can do anything with distance strike that you can do with an unarmed attack. maneuvers, adept powers, whatever.

smashing blow and vicious blow sounds like a good idea, but it actually lowers your effectiveness, game mechanics-wise. i'd really, really, really, really, really like to see some errata that changes that--as well as changing the relationship between vicious blow and killing hands. really, really.

[Digital Heroin]

The combination of Distance Strike, Killing Hands, and Silent Delay Damage is viciously evil...

[mfb]

and viciously expensive, to boot.

[Glyph]

I would let someone use Distance Strike, which is essentially a ranged version of a punch, with the Blind Fighting, Focus Will, and Focus Strength maneuvers, as well as for making Called Shots. However, the other combat maneuvers don't apply to a ranged attack, so I would disallow them (Some affect reach, which is irrelevant for a ranged attack, or are used to improve defense or position in melee, also irrelevant. And Vicious Blow is used in conjunction with a blunt weapon, so it would not apply to either Distance Strike or Crushing Blow).

[Fortune]

Distance Strike does not exist in my games for exactly that reason. It is a Ranged Attack supposedly made with the Adept's magic/ki/mystical energy. In my opinion, Adept Magic should be consistantly internal, limited to affecting their body or aura. If the Adept wants Clout, let him be a Phys-Mage!

[mfb]

vicious blow is not used in conjunction with a blunt weapon, it's used in conjuction with a weapon that does stun damage. distance strike is, barring use in conjunction with killing hands, stun damage, and can therefore be used with vicious blow.

there are some manuevers that can't be effectively used with distance strike--for instance, if a character decides to use Close Combat--but that just means the adept is wasting his time if he attempts it. just like using vicious blow with killing hands (sigh).

[Zazen]

[toturi]

[mfb]

you can use vicious blow with a weapon, toturi, if you take an MA that has that manuever and allows weapons--kung fu, for instance. but i don't think you guys have realized the true terror of distance strike:

there is no minimum distance.

[Kagetenshi]

So arguably someone could use distance strike at melee range and thus remove an opponent's ability to retaliate... how deliciously evil!

~J

[DV8]

That makes very little sense to me, and I would rule against it in my games. If the victim is within range of retaliation, I'd resolve it as a melee attack with the attacker having a reach equal to his or her magic rating.

[Kagetenshi]

Mein gott! That's even worse! I'm just going to be thankful that I have yet to encounter a player who has considered using distance strike at melee ranges.

~J

[CoalHeart]

on a partially related note I have a question/comment about adepts.

Is it my imagination or do they have an unbelievably easy time at destroying Foci of any type and force?

Typical Adept with Killing hands M, and 6 strength+2 improved strength 6 unarmed+2 improved unarmed, and Smashing blow.

Vs Power Foci force 3.

Adept Rolls 8 dice+5 combat pool, against TN 4. Then rolls 8 strength and adds each success as 1 point of strength. He attack the foci with intent to smash it. I'm pretty sure that foci with whatever OR it had would be broken into dust, destroying the Foci.
Foci can't resist or counter attack due to adept not percieving at the time. Mage can't do anything since he wasn't attacked personally.

Adding distance strike to this would mean you can look at someone's gun, wave your hand and it falls to pieces, or am I wrong?

Same would go for most weapons. Just snap them in whoever's hand.


or am I just understanding the adept abilities all wrong?

Be gentle... I'm still learning some of the finer points of various archtypes.

[spotlite]

I would say that any character who got in range of a mage carrying damageable foci would have a pretty easy time breaking them if they could grab it or target it effectively (it WOULD be a called shot, don't forget, which generally means less successes at least). The adept just has a better chance of succeeding because of the high power and extra dice. but that's what they pay their points for!

[Zazen]

[mfb]

reach equal to magic rating! holy christ, DV8, you can GM my adept any day.

the adept with distance strike would have a much easier time breaking stuff, spotlite, because he doesn't have to worry about his successes being negated by a counterattack. it's that, more than the "i can punch anyone within twenty feet" aspect that makes distance strike so unutterably, profanely powerful.

[Ol' Scratch]

His method makes a lot more sense than the canonical one, though. At least opponents have a chance to defend themselves. And a simple use of the Close Combat maneuver can negate it's effects.

[mfb]

sense, hell. DV8's method makes distance strike a billion kajillion hozillion fitchillion times more powerful. do you realize that with distance strike and DV8's idea, my character could easily combat up to five other characters at one time, with a base TN 4 on all of them?

[Ol' Scratch]

As opposed to normal Distance Strike where they don't get a resistance test whatsoever beyond Body?

[mfb]

as opposed to normal distance strike, where at least the TN goes up. targets also get to dodge.

[toturi]

I don't suppose you would like me to remind you that there's Multi-Strike and Whirling. ;)

[Ol' Scratch]

I'm still confused by your "easily combat five other opponents" comment. Close Combat would completely and utterly annihilate any advantage the adept had due to his "magical reach" with the power. It would be, for all intents and purposes, two wasted power points.

Sure, it has its advantages outside of combatants with Close Combat, but chances are if you're fighting a hoard of opponents who don't have martial arts maneuvers available, and at least one of them doesn't have Close COmbat, chances are also pretty high that they're "nobody" opponents who you could have taken out without the power, too.

Also, since it's only working as Reach, it in no way negates the multiple opponents penalties. And as Toturi pointed out, you can get close to mimicking it with two other maneuvers anyway.

Still beats the uberness that is Distance Strike as written. As it's written, Adepts only need a single skill, crank it up with Improved Ability, and wham, they're a killing machine with no way for opponents to truly defend against them, unlike DV8's method which still allows for counterattacks.

[mfb]

i know all about 'em; they make the reach idea even better.

i miscalculated my TNs above, though. i would only be able to engage 2 opponents at TN 4, without multi-strike or whirling. my char (who has whirling and kick attack) could, however, do a headshot at TN 2 while his opponent faced TN 6; or kick two people in the head at TN 4 each; or punch one guy in the head at TN 4 and hit two other people at TN 3; or engage 8 opponents at TN 4, or 4 opponents at TN 3, or...

edit: bah, you and your 'not calculating TNs while you type your post'. yes, one guy with close combat can make things difficult while that one guy is attacking you. but next action, you can still hop back a meter or two and take away his chance to resist. turning distance strike into a reach modifier is powerful because it gives you more options--it allows you to lower your TNs, while keeping your opponents' the same or even raising them.