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> [HELP] Shadowrun4 GM'ing Question
PalaNolho
post Apr 20 2008, 07:56 PM
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Greetings everyone.

I would like to ask some questions since im new to Shadowrun setting and system and to the GMing buisness. So.. here it goes:

Summoning:
- in a combat situation, a player summons as spirit and get 3 net hits (so it has 3 services). When he rolls to resist the spell DV, his stun tracker reaches 0. So he is unconscious and fall down. Down the summon apear (on astal or material plane?)? does the summon execute any service? If the caster just get unconscious later, does the spirit finish the service? what does it do after he finish the service and the player is still down? and if the team members carry the body away to a safe place?
- when a spirit is summoned, how many CM boxes does it has?
- a spirit is doing and Elemental Attack ( ranged attack that gives elemental damage ). He roll a glitch. what effect coult it have?

NPCs in Combat:
- i was running the "On The Run" starting adventure and i reach a point where i had alot of NPCs in the same combat ( like 15 or so) plus 5 players. I got nuts trying to handle all the NPCs and i got really lost on this matter. How do you usualy do:
- - do you apply the wound modifiers to the NPCs actions and Init. too?
- - how do you usually handle combat between NPCs?
- - any tip to make this easyer?

Movement in Combat:
- the movement rate is the same for all Combat Turn, so, how should i handle a players that has 3 IP and on the first one declares a running and goes to a location and do something, and on the next IP stays on tha same place doing something too?

Ressuscitation and Clones:
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)

Combat Handling:
- Since the rules dont state nothing related to "how to use map grids".. and so one ( because of the general use of movement on SR), i would like to know if anyone has been using maps and hex or square grids to draw the places wherethe characters are and to handle combat movement, to help to visualize things. (i think it may be easyer for me this way because its easyer to handle distances and so on)


Its all for now .. i think lol

Thanks in advance.
(note: im from Portugal, in case there is any Portuguese arround... )
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Aaron
post Apr 20 2008, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 01:56 PM) *
- in a combat situation, a player summons as spirit and get 3 net hits (so it has 3 services). When he rolls to resist the spell DV, his stun tracker reaches 0. So he is unconscious and fall down. Down the summon apear (on astal or material plane?)? does the summon execute any service? If the caster just get unconscious later, does the spirit finish the service? what does it do after he finish the service and the player is still down? and if the team members carry the body away to a safe place?

I believe the correct interpretation is that the spirit becomes uncontrolled and the summoner passes out before he gets a chance to give any orders. I also believe that summoned spirits appear on the astral.

QUOTE
- when a spirit is summoned, how many CM boxes does it has?

As it appears in the astral, it would have 8 + F/2.

QUOTE
- a spirit is doing and Elemental Attack ( ranged attack that gives elemental damage ). He roll a glitch. what effect coult it have?

That's up to you, but it would be bad for the spirit and its allies (or at least make their lives more complicated).

QUOTE
- i was running the "On The Run" starting adventure and i reach a point where i had alot of NPCs in the same combat ( like 15 or so) plus 5 players. I got nuts trying to handle all the NPCs and i got really lost on this matter. How do you usualy do:
- - do you apply the wound modifiers to the NPCs actions and Init. too?

Me? Actions yes, initiative no. I usually let the bad guys all use the same initiative, which is the best Initiative rating among them, and then use individual IPs.

QUOTE
- - how do you usually handle combat between NPCs?

The same way I handle it between PCs and NPCs. Or, if the battle isn't going to impact what the PCs are doing, I just narrate it.

QUOTE
- - any tip to make this easyer?

Sure. What I do is put the CM max on a line for each NPC. Then when marking damage, I make hash marks after that number in the shape of triangles. So the first one is like a /, the second is like a _, and the third is like a \, making a triangle which kind of looks like /\. Then every triangle is a -1 dice pool penalty. Pain Tolerance is done with vertical marks. So an encounter might look like:
  • Henchmen:
  • 10: /\ /\ / [This guy's taken seven damage.]
  • 10: /\ / [This one's taken five damage.]
  • Boss:
  • 12/2: || /\ /\ [The boss has Pain Tolerance 2 and has taken eight damage total.]

QUOTE
- the movement rate is the same for all Combat Turn, so, how should i handle a players that has 3 IP and on the first one declares a running and goes to a location and do something, and on the next IP stays on tha same place doing something too?

Create a movement rate per IP. For example, a walking movement rate of 10m and 3 IPs might move 4m for one IP and 3m for the other two.

QUOTE
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)

Page 160, Street Magic. Dead is dead.

QUOTE
- Since the rules dont state nothing related to "how to use map grids".. and so one ( because of the general use of movement on SR), i would like to know if anyone has been using maps and hex or square grids to draw the places wherethe characters are and to handle combat movement, to help to visualize things. (i think it may be easyer for me this way because its easyer to handle distances and so on)

Some do, some don't. It's been sufficient for us to draw on the white board and for me to say "it's twelve meters from here to here."

QUOTE
(note: im from Portugal, in case there is any Portuguese arround... )

I'm mostly Portuguese, but I was born in Illinois. Desculpe.
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Triggerz
post Apr 20 2008, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (Aaron @ Apr 20 2008, 04:23 PM) *
Sure. What I do is put the CM max on a line for each NPC. Then when marking damage, I make hash marks after that number in the shape of triangles. So the first one is like a /, the second is like a _, and the third is like a \, making a triangle which kind of looks like /\. Then every triangle is a -1 dice pool penalty. Pain Tolerance is done with vertical marks. So an encounter might look like:
  • Henchmen:
  • 10: /\ /\ / [This guy's taken seven damage.]
  • 10: /\ / [This one's taken five damage.]
  • Boss:
  • 12/2: || /\ /\ [The boss has Pain Tolerance 2 and has taken eight damage total.]


Great stuff! I'll make sure to use that if I end up GMing our group (as is likely to happen, I think).
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Tarantula
post Apr 20 2008, 09:12 PM
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Actually, on the glitch, the spirit still succeeds on its attack, it just also has a negative effect along with it. (Examples of glitches are things like shooting but also ejecting your clip, or succeeding in a jump but landing on some nails and taking some damage). So, for a spirit using elemental attack, I'd maybe say something like either the spirit takes some of the damage also, or the spirit burns itself out, and can't use the elemental attack again until it spends a complex action "recharging".
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Kithran
post Apr 20 2008, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula @ Apr 20 2008, 10:12 PM) *
Actually, on the glitch, the spirit still succeeds on its attack, it just also has a negative effect along with it. (Examples of glitches are things like shooting but also ejecting your clip, or succeeding in a jump but landing on some nails and taking some damage). So, for a spirit using elemental attack, I'd maybe say something like either the spirit takes some of the damage also, or the spirit burns itself out, and can't use the elemental attack again until it spends a complex action "recharging".


I presume you could have the elemental attack causing a fire - the more glitches the closer to where the party are and the further from the target.

Kithran
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Fortune
post Apr 20 2008, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 21 2008, 05:56 AM) *
... im from Portugal ...


So is Shadowrun's new Line Developer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Welcome to Dumpshock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Synner
post Apr 21 2008, 01:19 PM
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And here I thought I was the last Shadowrun GM still running around in Portugal...
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Shiloh
post Apr 21 2008, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (Kithran @ Apr 20 2008, 10:15 PM) *
I presume you could have the elemental attack causing a fire - the more glitches the closer to where the party are and the further from the target.


Or setting off the sprinklers or knocking something over that might impede either side, or making a big cloud of smoke, or triggering an autoclose door, or frying a circuit so the door *won't* autoclose.

Anything really, so long as it's an "unintended consequence" and isn't too major. You can play it for laughs, even. A water elemental might just accidentally drench a teammate.
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Fortune
post Apr 21 2008, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (Synner @ Apr 21 2008, 11:19 PM) *
And here I thought I was the last Shadowrun GM still running around in Portugal...


I thought you were in England now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Aaron
post Apr 21 2008, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune @ Apr 21 2008, 09:46 AM) *
I thought you were in England now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think he's staying in Portugal; he seems to have developed a taste for good food. =ib
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PalaNolho
post Apr 21 2008, 06:10 PM
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You can add a "taste for good weather" too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 10:15 AM
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Another Question:
- on Character creation, whats the MAX availability for gear? the playes can buy ANY peace of equipment or is there any Availadility cap?
(i know that cyberware is restricted to normal and Alpha on charecter creation)

thanks
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Fortune
post Apr 23 2008, 11:15 AM
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The Availability maximum is 12 at chargen.
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Shiloh
post Apr 23 2008, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 11:15 AM) *
Another Question:
- on Character creation, whats the MAX availability for gear? the playes can buy ANY peace of equipment or is there any Availadility cap?
(i know that cyberware is restricted to normal and Alpha on charecter creation)

thanks

By the book, availability 12. It's in the gear section of the character generation chapter, IIRC.
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ArkonC
post Apr 23 2008, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE (Aaron @ Apr 20 2008, 10:23 PM) *
Page 160, Street Magic. Dead is dead.

So medical technology in 2070 forgot how to resuscitate?
There are no rules anywhere in the books on how to do this, and we haven't ever had the opportunity to even try, I mean, why try when the guy is missing a head, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Magic cannot raise the dead, but resuscitation through technological means should still be possible, and even have a bigger change of success, I think...
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 12:59 PM) *
So medical technology in 2070 forgot how to resuscitate?
There are no rules anywhere in the books on how to do this, and we haven't ever had the opportunity to even try, I mean, why try when the guy is missing a head, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Magic cannot raise the dead, but resuscitation through technological means should still be possible, and even have a bigger change of success, I think...


I think its a good thing that theres are no ressurection thing, that way the players will think twice or more before doing a stupid thing lol. But cloning clould be a possibility ( i dont know if there are any rules for cloning ).
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Aaron
post Apr 23 2008, 12:48 PM
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I'm fairly certain that "beyond Physical damage overflow max" is equivalent to "completely dead," whereas "full Physical Condition Monitor but not yet past the max" is equivalent to "able to be resuscitated," for medical and magical techniques. I'm willing to bet that the stabilization process includes resuscitation techniques.
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ArkonC
post Apr 23 2008, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE (Aaron @ Apr 23 2008, 02:48 PM) *
I'm fairly certain that "beyond Physical damage overflow max" is equivalent to "completely dead," whereas "full Physical Condition Monitor but not yet past the max" is equivalent to "able to be resuscitated," for medical and magical techniques. I'm willing to bet that the stabilization process includes resuscitation techniques.

Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...
I don't think rules for this would be very useful, since deaths that involve PCs are usually messy and beyond the scope of medical technology...
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Tarantula
post Apr 23 2008, 02:45 PM
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I think Aaron meant by "completely dead" a state of death so complete that one can't be resuscitated, represented by being "dead" in game terms. Maxing your physical damage boxes is "dead" as far as most people are concerned (heart may be stopped, etc.) but, you have that overflow amount before you're completely dead.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 01:53 PM) *
Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...
I don't think rules for this would be very useful, since deaths that involve PCs are usually messy and beyond the scope of medical technology...



So then how whould it work with DocWagon contract? it only works as long you dont pass the maximum overflow?

Regarding DocWagon ... my players will have it for sure, so, if anyone could explain the practical use with simple exemples, i would be thankfull

Thanks.
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bjorn
post Apr 23 2008, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
NPCs in Combat:
- i was running the "On The Run" starting adventure and i reach a point where i had alot of NPCs in the same combat ( like 15 or so) plus 5 players. I got nuts trying to handle all the NPCs and i got really lost on this matter. How do you usualy do:
- - do you apply the wound modifiers to the NPCs actions and Init. too?
- - how do you usually handle combat between NPCs?
- - any tip to make this easyer?

With that many NPCs, I use the same initiative. If 1/2 or more take wounds lets say, I'll drop their initiative number 1. For actions, I do apply wound modifiers, but if I'm using that many NPCs, 95% of them have the same dice pool so it is easy to say "OK, ganger 1 has 6 dice to shoot with, -1 for wound, ganger 2 -2 dice, ganger 3 full dice pool, etc". I also only use 1 damage track, so physical and stun add up quickly and threats are eliminated. The only time I use 2 damage tracks and separate initiatives is for "boss type" NPCs (leaders and other runners).

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
Movement in Combat:
- the movement rate is the same for all Combat Turn, so, how should i handle a players that has 3 IP and on the first one declares a running and goes to a location and do something, and on the next IP stays on tha same place doing something too?

If they have 3 IP's, they can only run 1/3 of their movement rate. So if they say they want to move across the street, but on the 2nd pass they actually want to shoot someone, their character stops in the middle of the street.

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
Ressuscitation and Clones:
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)

Cybermancy (Street Magic Book)

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
Combat Handling:
- Since the rules dont state nothing related to "how to use map grids".. and so one ( because of the general use of movement on SR), i would like to know if anyone has been using maps and hex or square grids to draw the places wherethe characters are and to handle combat movement, to help to visualize things. (i think it may be easyer for me this way because its easyer to handle distances and so on)

We use wet-erase markers and mat with different colors representing different things. Makes the game much easier and more visual, the only thing is the bigger the mat you use, the bigger your playing surface has to be.
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Tarantula
post Apr 23 2008, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 09:05 AM) *
So then how whould it work with DocWagon contract? it only works as long you dont pass the maximum overflow?


Basically, yeah.
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Aaron
post Apr 23 2008, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 06:53 AM) *
Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...

I am unaware of any cases that weren't simply a result of outdated definitions of "dead," specifically the cessation of breathing or heartbeat (which is now known as "clinical death," and is insufficient to pronounce a person dead). Wikipedia has a pretty good run down.
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Shiloh
post Apr 23 2008, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (bjorn @ Apr 23 2008, 04:26 PM) *
If they have 3 IP's, they can only run 1/3 of their movement rate. So if they say they want to move across the street, but on the 2nd pass they actually want to shoot someone, their character stops in the middle of the street.


Nah, they shoot with the "Shooter running" negatives. Unless they *want* to stop...
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Speed Wraith
post Apr 23 2008, 04:34 PM
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I use a square grid battlemat, since our group had been doing DnD for the last few years (funny that 4th edition DnD drove me away, but I'll readily go to 4th SR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It isn't perfect, but I hate hexes for half-squares. We just started playing SR again so we haven't really settled on anything yet. I'm hoping to find a battlemat with smaller squares than 1 inch so that I have an easier time with doing large-scale combat.

As for initiative, I use excel. I've got a blank template that includes initiative on one side and an NPC condition monitor chart on the other. Again, not perfect, but we're still working out the kinks and trying to experiment with whatever we can. I've seen an initiative application, but only got it to work once...
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