[HELP] Shadowrun4 GM'ing Question Options

[Tarantula]

Then the spirits are not completly immune to normal weapons, just have a big defence agains it ( even with 15 dices its possible to get less hits them the attacker )

Correct. Note, that the Immunity to Normal Weapons power references the hardened armor power as well. If the power of the attack is less than the rating of the armor, the attack fails outright.

For example, force 4 spirit has 8 armor. You shoot it with a pistol for 7P. The spirit doesn't even roll anything, the attack fails because 7 < 8. Same spirit, you hit it with a sword that ends up doing 10P. Now the spirit rolls its body + armor to resist that damage.

[deek]

For example, force 4 spirit has 8 armor. You shoot it with a pistol for 7P. The spirit doesn't even roll anything, the attack fails because 7 < 8. Same spirit, you hit it with a sword that ends up doing 10P. Now the spirit rolls its body + armor to resist that damage.

There's a reaction test in there, too. So, you can outright miss the spirit, hit the spirit but not get past its armor, or actually hit it.

Personally, I think it would be better if there was a downgraded effect when actually hitting the spirit. Even the big damage, it should be reduced by something if the spirit has immunity...

[Tarantula]

There's a reaction test in there, too. So, you can outright miss the spirit, hit the spirit but not get past its armor, or actually hit it.

Personally, I think it would be better if there was a downgraded effect when actually hitting the spirit. Even the big damage, it should be reduced by something if the spirit has immunity...

Yes, as I stipulated in my examples, it was already having hit the spirit and thus have the damage of the attack.

From the start of the round, it would be attack test vs spirits defense test.
Then compare damage to spirits armor, if less than attack negated, if greater than continue.
Roll spirits body + armor vs attacks damage.
Spirit takes damage, mark condition monitor and note damage penalties.

[PalaNolho]

So let me see if i got it:

Hardened Armor:
Hardened Armor is even tougher than normal armor. If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; don’t even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test. Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.

Immunity:
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance to a certain type of attack or affliction. The critter gains an “Armor rating� equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as “hardened� protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage.

Immunity to Normal Weapons: This immunity applies
to all weapons that are not magical (weapon foci, spells, adept
or critter powers). If the critter has the Allergy weakness, then
the Immunity does not apply against non-magical attacks
made using the allergen.

Spirit Combat:
... Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons (see p. 288), giving them Armor equal to twice their Force against all attacks. This makes powerful spirits virtually immune to most physical attacks.

This was what you were talking about right? so ANY spirit in phisical form has an Hardened Armor = Force x 2
Ok... now i see that Spirits are indeed fearse opponents lol

[PalaNolho]

Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?
- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?

Spell

Increase [Attribute]
Type: P �€� Range: T �€� Duration: S �€� DV: (F ÷ 2) �€“ 2
This spell increases an attribute (natural or augmented) on
a voluntary subject. A version of this spell exists for each Physical
and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes (Initiative,
Edge, Essence, Magic, or Resonance). The Force of the spell must
equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected.
The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits
scored. Each attribute can only be affected by a single Increase
Attribute spell at a time.
Note that increasing an attribute may affect other derived
statistics (Increase Reaction also affects Initiative, for example,
while Increase Body will add extra boxes to the character�€™s
Physical Condition Monitor for as long as the spell lasts).

lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?



thanks

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 1 2008, 04:06 PM

[Crusher Bob]

Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?

No

- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?

Yes

[Nightwalker450]

Even people with Astral Sight, Spell Knack and Spirit Knack can initiate, and their magic never gets above 1.

[HentaiZonga]

Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?
- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?


thanks

The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.

[Shiloh]

So let me see if i got it:

Hardened Armor:
Hardened Armor is even tougher than normal armor. If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; don’t even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test. Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.

Immunity:
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance to a certain type of attack or affliction. The critter gains an “Armor rating� equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as “hardened� protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage.

Immunity to Normal Weapons: This immunity applies
to all weapons that are not magical (weapon foci, spells, adept
or critter powers). If the critter has the Allergy weakness, then
the Immunity does not apply against non-magical attacks
made using the allergen.

Spirit Combat:
... Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons (see p. 288), giving them Armor equal to twice their Force against all attacks. This makes powerful spirits virtually immune to most physical attacks.

This was what you were talking about right? so ANY spirit in phisical form has an Hardened Armor = Force x 2
Ok... now i see that Spirits are indeed fearse opponents lol

Eek. I thought they were pretty scary when a F5 had 10 Armour to *roll*, but that looks like Immunity to Normal Weapons is a special/specific case of Immunity, and that makes 'em *right* scary! Small arms won't scratch 'em. Handy to know before tonight... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[deek]

The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.

Which is why I've never understood why mages fear losing essence so much? Granted, my campaigns have pretty high karma rewards, so that could be a big difference in my perception.

[Shiloh]

The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.

Heh. More old version assumptions catching up with me here. I had assumed Initiation added 1 to your Magic (and the cap).

[HentaiZonga]

Heh. More old version assumptions catching up with me here. I had assumed Initiation added 1 to your Magic (and the cap).

*nod* Making Magic a purchasable attribute was the best thing the developers ever did for Shadowrun. I wish I knew who's idea that was, so I could buy them a drink.

[Shiloh]

Which is why I've never understood why mages fear losing essence so much? Granted, my campaigns have pretty high karma rewards, so that could be a big difference in my perception.

Essence loss lowers the cap and can eventually burn the mage out entirely... Initiation past about 3 ranks should be rare, costly and difficult. You can't buy back that point lost from Essence damage.

[HentaiZonga]

Essence loss lowers the cap and can eventually burn the mage out entirely... Initiation past about 3 ranks should be rare, costly and difficult. You can't buy back that point lost from Essence damage.

Realize, if you Initiate with a group and take an Ordeal every single time, you're paying the following to Initiate:

Grade 1 - 8 Karma
Grade 2 - 10 Karma
Grade 3 - 12 Karma
Grade 4 - 14 Karma
Grade 5 - 15 Karma

Past Grade 5, of course, you're generally better off just buying a new Metamagic technique outright. But to get from Grade 1 to 5 costs a minimum of 59 Karma - more if you build an Ally Spirit as one of your Ordeals.

Add onto this the cost of re-purchasing Magic (3 x new rating, so generally 15 to 18 to 'stay even'), and it can get pretty hefty.

Also: Your maximum Magic rating is equal to (Essence + Initiate Grade), round down, and your maximum Initiate grade is equal to your Magic rating.

[deek]

Seeing I give out a base 10 karma per session, the limiting factor at my table is time, not to mention finding the mentor/group to initiate through.

I think I've got players with an average of 60-80 karma they haven't spent yet...yeah, things are different at my table.

[HentaiZonga]

Seeing I give out a base 10 karma per session, the limiting factor at my table is time, not to mention finding the mentor/group to initiate through.

I think I've got players with an average of 60-80 karma they haven't spent yet...yeah, things are different at my table.

*nod* I used to Monty Hall my group's Karma, back in the day. According to Pg. 263 of the BBB, a good player should typically be getting about 5 Karma per session, maxing out to 11 if he does everything right and really shines in the process. 10's a little high, but not too terribly bad.

Keep in mind that there's a lot for an Awakened character to spend that on, though. I know my Mage typically blows through 18 Karma a pop just on Quickened spells and amusing Anchoring tricks.

[PalaNolho]

Another Question:
- How many Sustaning focils can a character have active at same time?
- when using a sustaining focil to cast, the spell uses max force = focil power and the mage ad the force used from the focil to the spellcastin check or it uses his own magic atribut, but the force choosen cant be greater then the focil power?

About this spell:

Increase [Attribute]
Type: P �€� Range: T �€� Duration: S �€� DV: (F ÷ 2) �€“ 2
This spell increases an attribute (natural or augmented) on a voluntary subject. A version of this spell exists for each Physical and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes (Initiative, Edge, Essence, Magic, or Resonance). The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected.
The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored. Each attribute can only be affected by a single Increase Attribute spell at a time. Note that increasing an attribute may affect other derived
statistics (Increase Reaction also affects Initiative, for example, while Increase Body will add extra boxes to the character�€™s Physical Condition Monitor for as long as the spell lasts).

Lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?



thanks

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 1 2008, 06:29 PM

[Nightwalker450]

Another Question:
- How many Sustaning focils can a character have active at same time?
- when using a sustaining focil to cast, the spell uses max force = focil power and the mage ad the force used from the focil to the spellcastin check or it uses his own magic atribut, but the force choosen cant be greater then the focil power?

Logic Foci's active at one time. If I understand your second question... No you don't add the force of the foci to the casting, it just holds the cast spell.

Lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?

It has to be cast at Force 5 (or higher, but our goal is 10 so 5 works). You just have to get 5 hits, and then these are added.

If you had a body of 4 and wanted to get to 10, you'd want to cast at Force 6, Force 4 would only get you to 8.

But you're still limited to Base * 1.5 for Max Attribute.

[PalaNolho]

About Mystic Adepts:
- is there any restriction on the spellcasting skill rating? lets say, i have 4 Magic alocated for magic skills. can i have 5 ranks on Spellcastig ??

[Fortune]

About Mystic Adepts:
- is there any restriction on the spellcasting skill rating? lets say, i have 4 Magic alocated for magic skills. can i have 5 ranks on Spellcastig ??

No such limitations. You could have a Magic of 1 for Sorcery/Conjuring purposes and still have a Spellcasting or Counterspelling or Summoning skill of 5 or 6.

[PalaNolho]

Another Question

Adiction:
- i have a player with Addiction, Severe (Alcohol). this would give him -6 penalty if he dont drink regulary right?.
- the problem is that i cant find any description on the effect of alcohol on the characters. Drugs and other toxins usually give extra IP or pain tolerance or some increase on Atributs for a periud of time, what about alcohol? is there any description for it?

Mystic Adepts:
- can a mystic adept become a good char? or is just like a "jack of all trades"?

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 2 2008, 08:18 AM

[HentaiZonga]

Another Question

- i have a player with Addiction, Severe (Alcohol). this would give him -6 penalty if he dont drink regulary right?.

Yes; it's called "Delirium Tremens" in real life.

- the problem is that i cant find any description on the effect of alcohol on the characters. Drugs and other toxins usually give extra IP or pain tolerance or some increase on Atributs for a periud of time, what about alcohol? is there any description for it?

well, Wiki knows all

[PalaNolho]

DANG !!! you are fast !! ive just hit the POST button and you already gave a replay lol
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fortune]

Mystic Adepts:
- can a mystic adept become a good char? or is just like a "jack of all trades"?

I think that the question is too subjective to properly answer with any degree of accuracy. It will vary widely from game to game and table to table. Mystic Adepts can be min-maxed to great effect, but only in a few limited areas. Don't discount the versatility and usefulness of those Jacks-of-All-Trades though, especially in games of more moderate power levels.

[PalaNolho]

Another Question

Spirit Powers

Movement
Type: P • Action: Complex • Range: LOS • Duration: Sustained
The critter may increase or decrease the subject’s movement
rate within the terrain it controls. Multiply or divide the
target’s movement rate by the critter’s Magic.

- this affects only 1 target or "all" the enemy targets on LOS at same time ?
- a spirit in the astral plane can aply any power on a creature on the phisical plane?
- if a Materialized spirit i casts a continuous power on the caster then retours to the astral plane, does the effect of the power end on the caster?

Foci
a mage can have LOGIC focis active at same time. ok
- how many focis can he use at same time on a spell. Lets say, he will cast a Sustained spell. Can he use one Foci spellcasting ( to aid on the spellcasting) + foci spellcasting ( to aid on restid drain) + power foci + sustain foci ( tu sustain the spell) ????
- a power foci can be used to resist DV from spells ?
- a foci can only add the bonus to one roll? ( like the same foci add to the spellcasting and resist DV roll for a spell)

Spirits and Edge:
- do spirits use edge? in wich situation?
- can a mage ask a spirit to cast a spell with full power and eged with only one service ?


thanks

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 2 2008, 10:42 PM