Does Background Count make your spirits dumb?, "Durr, astral radiation make Fire Spirit think like Krunk"... Options

[Particle_Beam]

Mana Static is a spell that creates Background Count, right? Background Count makes that the Force of Astral Beings gets reduced, is that also true? The mental and physical stats and the skills of an astral being is determined by its Force. So, when a Spirit enters a place with Background Count (not aspected toward the tradition the Spirit hails from), do his skills and his mental attributes reduce too, because his Force Attribut go down? Or do they still stay the same. Like, what's the stats for a Force 6 Spirit of Man, for example, if he happens to be in a Background 4-place?
Are his spellcasting skill and his mental and physical attributes still the same with exception of the Force-attribut? Or do they all get down, so that he gets doubly penalized for his spellcasting skill (which does use Magic = Force as Added Attribut Dice-Pool), and he suddenly becomes as dumb as the morons at Box Networks from Futurama?

Thank you in advance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Aaron]

Remind me: does background count reduce the Force attribute or the Magic attribute? I don't have a copy of Street Magic in front of me, but I think it's on or around page 119.

[CollateralDynamo]

pg. 118 of Street Magic:

Spirits, being creatures of living
mana, are perhaps even more
vulnerable to background count.
A spirit’s Force is reduced in the
same manner as a character’s Magic,
thus affecting the spirit’s attribute
and spirit powers as well

So, this would seem to say, that yes, they do indeed get dumb.

[CanRay]

Probably not so much makes them stupider, but distracts them, preventing them from bringing forth their true capabilities.

Like trying to write an exam in College with a Hangover.

[FrankTrollman]

They literally diminish. If the background count is high enough, they become outright disrupted.

-Frank

[Aaron]

Behold the power of research.

[CanRay]

OK, I'm obviously batting 0.000 today. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Sorry folks, I'll shut up, get the dunce cap cybernetically intstalled into my cyberskull, and sit in the corner...

[Larme]

Keep in mind though that having a low score does not make you disabled. Someone with 1 int and 1 log is indeed a dumbass, but that doesn't mean they're mentally retarded. Anything that wouldn't require a roll they can do flawlessly. Simple commands that would not demand a roll for a smart spirit to understand do not require a roll for a dumb spirit either. It's just nuanced commands that might require some creative interpretation, which any spirit would need to roll to comprehend, that they're going to biff.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Plus functionally there's no difference really between "they literally diminish" and "they act like someone who is sleep-deprived and hung over". I mean, when you haven't slept and you're exhausted from staying up all night drinking, you are literally less smart than normal.

The fact that they're dumb due to eddies in the magico-mysticality continuum or whatever rather than being tired is not the point; the point is that yes, they're dumb.

[Dr Funfrock]

Interesting that you mention mana static in particular, as I've been having problems with that one today.

From the rules it appears that yes, the spirits force, and therefore stats diminish in background count. Enough count, they get disrupted, as Trollman said.
This becomes a bit weird when a mage can apparently just throw off mana static at around Force 8, which causes all spirits in the area to pop, unless they are force 9 or more (so, ridiculous), but also dropping their Magic (we'll say 5 for arguments sake) to 0.

Do they immediately stop sustaining the spell because they have Magic 0 (which I would assume means that it fails to become permanent because they stopped sustaining it)?
Isn't this just a little bit broken when used as a combat spell? They cast, all spirits die, they go to Magic 0, the spell fizzles, they go back to full magic. Why bother with Banishing?

[Tobias]

Interesting that you mention mana static in particular, as I've been having problems with that one today.

From the rules it appears that yes, the spirits force, and therefore stats diminish in background count. Enough count, they get disrupted, as Trollman said.
This becomes a bit weird when a mage can apparently just throw off mana static at around Force 8, which causes all spirits in the area to pop, unless they are force 9 or more (so, ridiculous), but also dropping their Magic (we'll say 5 for arguments sake) to 0.

Do they immediately stop sustaining the spell because they have Magic 0 (which I would assume means that it fails to become permanent because they stopped sustaining it)?
Isn't this just a little bit broken when used as a combat spell? They cast, all spirits die, they go to Magic 0, the spell fizzles, they go back to full magic. Why bother with Banishing?

IIRC drain is increased by the absolute amount of background count. So if a mage throws a force 8 Mana static first to get it to have a -8 BC he would need to get 8 successes which is fairly hard. And then take the drain value for the force 8 spell +8. I could be wrong as I don't have my book on me but thats how I remember it.

[Shiloh]

...a mage can...throw off mana static at around Force 8, which causes all spirits in the area to pop, unless they are force 9 or more (so, ridiculous), but also dropping their Magic (we'll say 5 for arguments sake) to 0.

Only if they're actually in the area they're targetting. But yes, that's how I'd read it.

Do they immediately stop sustaining the spell because they have Magic 0 (which I would assume means that it fails to become permanent because they stopped sustaining it)?

Yep.

Isn't this just a little bit broken when used as a combat spell? They cast, all spirits die, they go to Magic 0, the spell fizzles, they go back to full magic. Why bother with Banishing?

Yep, that's a *good* question. Also, assuming a slightly less powerful mage with Magic 4, say who has enough extra dice from Spellcasting and Focuses and Edge to ground-zero a 4-hit Manastatic while sustaining a spell: does the spell drop?

[Fuchs]

I'd say yes. The mana static is not aspected, is it?

[DocTaotsu]

Isn't this just a little bit broken when used as a combat spell? They cast, all spirits die, they go to Magic 0, the spell fizzles, they go back to full magic. Why bother with Banishing?

Mana static spikes dissipate at (I think) 1 point per hour, so banishing still it's place because you can still function after you banish their spirit.

[Fuchs]

That's if you make it permanent, Doc. If you drop it before it becomes permanent that's no concern.

[DocTaotsu]

Ah... That is what the overall rules say. Hm....

[Fuchs]

I don't mind the spell, to be honest - a good counter to spirit/sustained spell inflation. And a good way to weaken stronger spirits, which then can be taken down by other means, or to create a temporary safe haven for a group chased by spirits or other astrally active threats.

But it's stationary, so if used offensively most enemies will just be able to move out of the area. Another thing I like.

[DocTaotsu]

No I like this spell as well, I call it "The great equalizer" and it rewards mages who aren't too stuck up about magic to learn how to... you know, shoot someone in the head.

And yeah, using it as a way to even the odds against uber spirits is a great idea.

[CanRay]

... it rewards mages who aren't too stuck up about magic to learn how to... you know, shoot someone in the head.

Well, the nice thing about a Colt Manhunter is that, when you shoot someone with it, it doesn't cause your nose to bleed from forcing the mana through your body.

Just your ears to bleed from the gunshot. But, well, after listening to Trog Rock...

[Tarantula]

Isn't this just a little bit broken when used as a combat spell? They cast, all spirits die, they go to Magic 0, the spell fizzles, they go back to full magic. Why bother with Banishing?

Your example, a force 8 mana static with the magician in the area of effect. They cast the force 8 (and I'll assume 8 hits on the spellcasting test). Fantastic, all the force 8 or less spirits drop, and the magicians magic rating drops to 0. Now, for drain. Casting in a background count adds the background count to the force of the cast spell for purposes of drain, SM, 118. So, now he resists it as a force 16 mana static. 16/2 = 8. +4 = 12. Thats 12P drain hes going to suck. That hurts. I assume P because I doubt he has a magic of 16+.

Yep, that's a *good* question. Also, assuming a slightly less powerful mage with Magic 4, say who has enough extra dice from Spellcasting and Focuses and Edge to ground-zero a 4-hit Manastatic while sustaining a spell: does the spell drop?

As far as your example... Force 4 mana static with the mage in the center, again, resists as if it were force 8. So thats 8/2 = 4 +4 = 8. Since force 8 is higher than his magic (of 4) the drain is P. 8P is nothing to snear at for drain resistance.

[Shiloh]

As far as your example... Force 4 mana static with the mage in the center, again, resists as if it were force 8. So thats 8/2 = 4 +4 = 8. Since force 8 is higher than his magic (of 4) the drain is P. 8P is nothing to snear at for drain resistance.

Absolutely not, no. but assuming he survives, bleeding nose and potential stroke an' all, does he still have enough *omph* to keep the Heal spell he just popped onto the exsanguinating teammate going? Perhaps this is an intentional and circumstantial limit to the Force of Manastatic: don't cast one that'll drop your Magic to zero if you want to keep sustaining any spells. Or maybe a Magic Rating of 0 is still a Magic Rating, for the purpose of sustaining an already-cast spell.

[Tarantula]

SM, 118, "If background count reduces a character's Magic to attribute to 0 or less, he is rendered unable to use any magical abilities within the area." Sorry, you hit 0, spell stops sustaining.

[Shiloh]

SM, 118, "If background count reduces a character's Magic to attribute to 0 or less, he is rendered unable to use any magical abilities within the area." Sorry, you hit 0, spell stops sustaining.

Cheers, Tarantula. That's that one answered. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[suppenhuhn]

Why do you assume the mana static affects its own drain? Don't you cast a spell before its effect takes place? If you cast a manaball on yourself you also don't get the damage modifier on your test, so why should that be for mana static?

[Fortune]

If you cast a manaball on yourself you also don't get the damage modifier on your test ...

Minor nitpick: Wound Modifiers never affect Damage or Drain resistance tests.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post though.