Does Background Count make your spirits dumb?, "Durr, astral radiation make Fire Spirit think like Krunk"... Options

[Tarantula]

Me too, I think its horribly stupid that you can't counterspell an environmental spell.

[FrankTrollman]

Me too, I think its horribly stupid that you can't counterspell an environmental spell.

Counterspelling protects individuals, it doesn't stop spells from coming into existence. How would you go about protecting the air from having a wall take form inside it?

Or to put it another way: when you counterspell an Invisibility, you don't make the invisible character visible, you prevent the invisibility from hiding the target from the people you are protecting. The people you provide counterspelling to can see the target, everyone else still can't. If there was an analagous effect for Mana Static that would be horribly broken. The last thing anyone needs is to have the ability to create background counts that their team is immune to on the fly.

-Frank

[Aaron]

Well, it's a -4 to actual spell Force as well, so that cancels as far as Drain is concerned. A better wording would have been:

• The Force of any spell you cast into or out of a Background Count is reduced by the rating of the Background Count (this does not reduce the Drain of the spell).
• The Force of any sustained spell brought into a background count has its Force reduced by the rating of the Background Count until it leaves the Background Count. Spells brought to zero are disrupted.

Er ... I might have missed it, but I don't remember reading anything about background count reducing a spell's Force. And the example of spellcasting in a mana void (which uses the rules for spellcasting with a background count) on page 120 of Street Magic seems to indicate that this is not the case. Would you mind filling me in on what I'm missing?

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

An existing spell's force would be reduced.

Newly cast-spells suffer the limits imposed by the caster's reduced magic rating.

[Tarantula]

Well, it's a -4 to actual spell Force as well, so that cancels as far as Drain is concerned. A better wording would have been:

• Your Magic Attribute is reduced by the rating of the Background Count while you are in it.
• The Force of any spell you cast into or out of a Background Count is reduced by the rating of the Background Count (this does not reduce the Drain of the spell).
• The Force of any sustained spell brought into a background count has its Force reduced by the rating of the Background Count until it leaves the Background Count. Spells brought to zero are disrupted.
• The Force of any Spirit brought into a background count has its Force reduced by the rating of the Background Count until it leaves the Background Count. Spirits brought to zero are disrupted.

Are you sure thats how it works? Reading the book seems to imply this:
Mage a has magic 4
Mage b has magic 6

Mage a casts a force 4 mana static on mage b, and gets 4 hits.
Mage b casts a force 4 (his maximium, as his magic is now 2) flamethrower at mage A, but resists drain as if it were a force 8 flamethrower.

Is that not correct?

[Particle_Beam]

You don't move the mana static. The moment you cast it on the specific environment that you targeted with your eyes, it stays there, even if it takes some time to become permanent and you walk around. If you cast it in a room, and wander around, the mana static effect stays in the room, not with you. It's not an "aura"-effect. So, yes, the astral beings and mages affected should just leave the room, and can so, unless somehow hindered.

[Tarantula]

You can move area effect sustained spells via complex action.

I said there is an arguement for allowing mana static to be moved, and one for not allowing it.

You should be able to move it because it is an area spell, and is currently being sustained (before it becomes permanent).

You should not be able to move it because it is being sustained to be permanent, and moving it kind of negates that purpose.

Either way, a clarification on the issue would be nice (AFAIK mana static is the only area effect permanent spell around).

[BRodda]

An existing spell's force would be reduced.

Newly cast-spells suffer the limits imposed by the caster's reduced magic rating.

OK another stupid question, what happens to dual natured creatures in a mana static zone or even in an area with a high background count. So lets say you have a group of ghouls dragging people off to their lair to be killed and eaten, I'd say that area would have a pretty horrific background count. Does that make it harder for them to see as they only can see with astral perception? What about other critter powers?

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

ooh...good one.

Assensing is intuition+assensing, so as long as one's magic isn't reduced to 0, they should still be able to astrally percieve. For instance, a hellhound's magic is 3, so in a background count of 3 or more, he's just another dog. A non-mage ghoul would be blinded with a counter-aspected background count of 1.

Personally, I'd rule that free-willed dual natured creatures would tend to avoid counter-aspect background count.

However...I wouldn't think 'kill people and eat them' would create an aspect that would be counter to the ghouls' nature. If anything, it would raise their effective magic rating.

[Aaron]

An existing spell's force would be reduced.

Oh. Wait, where does it say that?

[Tarantula]

SM, 118, "Pre-existing wards, mana barriers, active foci, sustained spells, and quickened/anchored spells are similarly affected. Reduce their Force by the absolute value of the background count. If the Force is reduced to zero or less, wards and mana barriers will collapse, foci will deactivate, and spells will fizzle. The enchantment on a quickened/anchored spell or ward/mana barrier will repair itself once removed from the background count, returning to its regular Force. Background count also affects astral visibility (see p. 114), which affects both assensing and astral combat."

As far as dual natured characters.... SM, 120, "Dual-natured creatures and spirits are typically uncomfortable within a mana ebb, even though it doesn’t cause them any harm directly." Note, Ebbs are from -1 to -6. Beyond that it becomes a Mana Void, SM, 120, "If a character exposes himself to the astral plane (either by astrally perceiving or projecting) while in a void, he risks having his astral form torn apart as it dissipates into the surrounding emptiness—as would air in a vacuum. Each Combat Turn the character is astrally active, he suffers Physical damage with a Damage Value equal to the absolute value of the void’s rating (so a –8 Rating void deals a DV of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) . Dual-natured or astrally-perceiving characters resist this damage with their Body attribute, while pure astral forms (such as projecting characters) resist with their Willpower attribute. If the character has any form of astral armor (such as the Mystic Armor critter power), it applies to this test."

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Interesting - I missed that passage...though I'm not sure a temporary reduction of the magic attribute counts as 'harm.' Ah, well - maybe it'll show up in the FAQ or errata sometime.

[Aaron]

@Tarantula: Gracias.

[Shiloh]

OK another stupid question, what happens to dual natured creatures in a mana static zone or even in an area with a high background count. So lets say you have a group of ghouls dragging people off to their lair to be killed and eaten, I'd say that area would have a pretty horrific background count. Does that make it harder for them to see as they only can see with astral perception? What about other critter powers?

I reckon their lair would be aspected towards them, so they'd be unhindered, even assisted by its background.

[BRodda]

I reckon their lair would be aspected towards them, so they'd be unhindered, even assisted by its background.

So you have a pack of 30 ghouls that have kidnapped and devoured 30 or 40 people in a slow and grizzly fashion over a few years. They have kept several alive for days at a time before eating them. They have been doing this in an old abandoned tenement (100 or so years of misery and violence).
I guess all of a sudden having a group go to rescue a victim as a run would be murder (no pun intended) on a magic heavy team. I'd imagine a background count of 4 to be highly possible. Throw in a mage ghoul that is aspected and you have a fight worth having rather than just "A bug hunt." that ghoul hunts usually are in most games.

Heh, give that ghoul mage mana static and if he casts it at force 4 would have a background count of 6. That should ruin just about any runners day.

[Tarantula]

Aspects are positive. I'd argue that mana static is negative. That'd make it +4 for the aspected background count, and then -4 for the mana static, equaling 0 for the purposes of background count.

[Fortune]

Aspects are positive. I'd argue that mana static is negative. That'd make it +4 for the aspected background count, and then -4 for the mana static, equaling 0 for the purposes of background count.

Only for those that the Background is normally Aspected toward. All others would still be at a penalty.

And I think that Background Counts of 4 to 6 are silly, outside of major magical sites. The habitual feeding ground for a pack of Ghouls might have a 1 or 2, maybe rising slightly during one of their frenzies.

[Johnny the Bull]

Only for those that the Background is normally Aspected toward. All others would still be at a penalty.

And I think that Background Counts of 4 to 6 are silly, outside of major magical sites. The habitual feeding ground for a pack of Ghouls might have a 1 or 2, maybe rising slightly during one of their frenzies.

I'd agree with that.

[Shiloh]

So you have a pack of 30 ghouls that have kidnapped and devoured 30 or 40 people in a slow and grizzly fashion over a few years.

Only one each? No wonder they're all skin and bones... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) A pack that large would make a serious dent in even an urban population... Though I suppose they might mostly be eating carrion rather than hunting their own...

I'd imagine a background count of 4 to be highly possible.

I'd not go that far. Maybe 2.

Throw in a mage ghoul that is aspected and you have a fight worth having rather than just "A bug hunt." that ghoul hunts usually are in most games.

Hoo yeah! Gives the ghouls a good stronghold to make deals with Tamanous from, too.

[Tarantula]

I don't.

Background count is rating either positively or negatively (-12 to -7 is voids, -6 to -1 ebbs, +1 to +6 domains, and +7 to +12 warps). I'd argue that mana static is a negative background count modifier, as it actively interferes and makes mana use harder (like an ebb, not like a domain). So, the area with the mana static in it would be affected (in the example) of a domain of +4, and a mana static of -4. That makes it an effective background count of 0.

Now, this is my interpretation, as there is no written rule for how mana static interferes with backgrounds. Another possible interpretation is that mana static overrides the domain, and causes a flat -4 ebb in the area, penalties for everyone.