Minigun Recoil, Is this thing even usable? Options

[CanRay]

You know, a gattling gun's rate of fire is based on the rotational speed of the barrels. Which, in turn, is based on the speed of the electric motor, which is based on the current provided to it by the batteries (Which geek FAR too quickly, BTW.).

You could just set in a simple rheostat to slow down the rate of fire to a more manageable level. You don't *NEED* to have the Vindicator spit out the rounds at a cyclical rate of 5000-rounds per minute.

You could bring it down to a more manageable level. Sure, it's not as bad ass, and that "Vindicator Spin" will sound slower and deeper, so it won't be exactly like it is on the Trid, but at least you're not slotting off the random flying dragon getting pelted with stray bullets.

[DTFarstar]

Natural limit raised by 1 from Improved Attribute + Natural limit raised by 1 from Genetic Optimization + 10 Normal Max + 6 Augmented Str = 18 Str Troll, so I guess the chart went that high because that is the highest you can get with a character without redlining.

Chris

[DTFarstar]

WMS, Suppressive Fire is not subject to recoil penalties.

Chris

[Daier Mune]

Gatling guns aren't designed for precice shooting IRL, so i don't see why they should in game.

[IQ Zero]

Oh my, I feel like my groups are so deprived, none of us (as players) have ever owned (legally or otherwise) a gatling gun.

[WearzManySkins]

WMS, Suppressive Fire is not subject to recoil penalties.

Chris

Ok Found it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

WMS

[FriendoftheDork]

Ok Found it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

WMS

Ninja edit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Was just about to reply.

[Kerberos]

Actually, from Arsenal:

It hardly go over 18, but even a troll with maxed out strength can't really go that high anyway...

Sure they can, they just need improved attribute and gene optimization.
Bah, I got beat to it I see.

[Crusher Bob]

If you really need the rate of fire, why not just carry a mg scale revolver cannon instead? That way you don't have to carry around all those extra barrels. And since you are carrying it around, it's not like you will have enough ammo to overheat the barrel anyway. Of course, you could just carry an MG-3 and still get ~1200 rpm for a whole lot less weight, cost, and headache.

[crizh]

Heavy Weapons: Any weapon classified as heavy weapon (light, medium, and heavy machine guns and all assault cannons), has all of its uncompensated recoil doubled.....

I've always disliked that. I ain't a military type but that always seemed wrong to me. Assuming an LMG uses the same caliber rounds as a big Assault Rifle, just fires them from a belt, it should suffer less recoil per round.

Recoil should be determined by caliber and heavier weapons ought to reduce the penalties.

My kids were watching something on Discovery a few weeks ago that featured a Minigun. To be fair it was vehicle mounted but the impression I got was that the Gyroscopic forces generated by spinning the barrels improved accuracy. I seem to recall someone saying that doubling cyclic rof to 3000 improved accuracy 10 fold over a normal HMG.

I remember watching a sequence where they were circling a bunch of cars in the desert at night and unloading this thing with tracer ammo. I distinctly recall thinking 'I wouldn't want to be a Runner taking cover in there.'

Scary biscuits.

[MYST1C]

Nice Stunt Photo.

That's a movie prop from Resident Evil: Apocalypse, presented by the gunsmith...

[Shiloh]

Get a gyro (7), a gas vent 3 (3) (which costs the same despite the six barrels), a shock pad (1), a personalized grip (1), and a heavy barrel (1). That leaves you with just a -2.

And a foregrip makes -1, but I'd argue that the shock pad isn't going to add to the gyro harness, and IIRC, the minigun section says it can't have barrel mounts (not near my book so can't check).

Now, it's kinda weird that a heavy barrel for 6 barrels, and a gas vent system for 6 barrels would actually cost the same as normal, but that's something you need to handwave to make the gun at all useful to people on foot. Which I think it should be, because it's a really cool weapon and will add style to the game, and it's already harder to shoot with less brute force than an HMG, so it's not worth nerfing.

Heavy barrel is [weapon cost](IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) IIRC, so that makes sense.

But if they're only good for suppressive fire, that's not *such* a problem: heard in a cinema after Arnie (goes menkul with it in Predator) "That's a shit-hot way to cut the grass!". I think the problem is that they're not as good at suppressive fire as an HMG, either. So why bother? Which is a shame.

[ElFenrir]

My buddy of mine has a character with a minigun. We use the RAW of allowing gas vents, so he's got -3 for that and the gyro-harness. His Agility is 8 and Heavy Weapons 5 I think, so he gets 13(15 dice with smartlink). His Strength is 7, so he managed the extra +1. So he compensates for 11 points of recoil; the last 4 rounds doubled still gives -8, but he throws 7 dice still to try to hit stuff with it. It's not bad at all and usually the sight of someone with a damn minigun is enough to make the opposition think twice.

[Critias]

Think twice about what? All I'd be thinking was "manabolt/shoot/stab this guy first."

Some guns are just so big I don't see a reason to mount them on a person instead of the drone, not just for recoil compensation purposes, but simply because it's going to be an instant fire magnet.

[GrepZen]

I recall that the mini used in preadator was modified to use .22 rounds as anuthing larger made it impossible to manuver & fire but Jesse "Sgt. Slaughter/The Body" Ventura. Jesse is big but, he ain't no troll so if it can work IRL I don't see why it can't be modded in SR for man portable use. At worst (stat wise) it would be similar to a machine pistol, just with a greater ROF and no conceal.

[Daier Mune]

I recall that the mini used in preadator was modified to use .22 rounds as anuthing larger made it impossible to manuver & fire but Jesse "Sgt. Slaughter/The Body" Ventura. Jesse is big but, he ain't no troll so if it can work IRL I don't see why it can't be modded in SR for man portable use. At worst (stat wise) it would be similar to a machine pistol, just with a greater ROF and no conceal.

the minigun in predator was a movie prop that fired blanks, and it's power source was actualy off camera (run through a cable in Ventura's pants), so it didn't acutaly work IRL.

[Shiloh]

I recall that the mini used in preadator was modified to use .22 rounds as anuthing larger made it impossible to manuver & fire [by] Jesse "Sgt. Slaughter/The Body" Ventura. Jesse is big but, he ain't no troll so if it can work IRL I don't see why it can't be modded in SR for man portable use. At worst (stat wise) it would be similar to a machine pistol, just with a greater ROF and no conceal.

Pace Daier Mune's entirely valid points (which I'll handwave away by saying that Mr Ventura didn't have a 2050s gyroharness...), you're mistaking calibre for power (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Machine pistols mostly come in 9mm pistol-ammunition variants. *Assault Rifles* and LMGs are mostly .22 (5.56mm) these days, but they use a much longer cartridge and so have greater muzzle energy.

Not that cartridge type means a fat lot in a game that has "rounds" that fit any weapon smaller than a Cannon...

[Tarantula]

Actually, with a tripod, (instead of a gyro harness) one is able to get full recoil compensation on the minigun without need of strength enhancement.

Tripod 6
Gas vent 3
Folding Stock 1
Electronic Firing or Personalized Grip 1
Cyberarm Gyromount 3
= 14 RC, and able to fire full auto from the Vindicator with no penalty. Of course, then you have to lug a tripod around and set it up.

[CanRay]

Which is the reason for the Vindicator, really. It's a Crew-Served Weapon after all.

I mean, how many Shadowrunners go around lugging a M2-HB .50 BMG Heavy Machine Gun?

...

I just gave Troll players an idea, didn't I?

[krakjen]

That would be the Stoner-Ares M107 I guess.

[CanRay]

Yep! Or the Ultimax HMG-2.

[Stahlseele]

Which is the reason for the Vindicator, really. It's a Crew-Served Weapon after all.

I mean, how many Shadowrunners go around lugging a M2-HB .50 BMG Heavy Machine Gun?

...

I just gave Troll players an idea, didn't I?

THere'S the Barret Sniper Rifle, basically the same weapon only in bolt action single shot or single auto, i ain't really sure . . and there's enough trolls lugging around Heavy MG's *g*
Edit: hmm . . could one adapt the Barret or however that thing is spelled for Burst-Fire or Full-Auto? O.o

[CanRay]

THere'S the Barret Sniper Rifle, basically the same weapon only in bolt action single shot or single auto, i ain't really sure . . and there's enough trolls lugging around Heavy MG's *g*
Edit: hmm . . could one adapt the Barret or however that thing is spelled for Burst-Fire or Full-Auto? O.o

Much different weapon! The Barret Anti-Material Rifle is not a Heavy Machine Gun, it's "Just" Semi-Auto. Which, frankly, when you're talking about .50 BMG, is bad enough!

There's also Bolt-Action AMRs in the same calibre. The world Sniper's Record was just made recently in Afganistan, BTW, by a Canadian Soldier using one of those. (2,430 metres on the second shot. The first hit a bag in the hands of the target!).

The previous record was 2,250 metres, set by a U.S. Marine in Vietnam.

But, yeah, a Burst-Fire Barret would be killer, even for a Troll!

[IC-Pick]

I always disagreed with the uncompensated recoil on heavy weapons being doubled as well. Judging from RL weapons and SR damage codes, it would seem that:

LMG's are normal AR caliber weapons ie the SAW which is a support maghinegun that fires the same .223 that an m16 uses
MMG's are heavier rifle caliber weapons used in most good sniper rifles and hunting weapons, ie the m60 utilizing .308's
HMG's would be the 50 calibers and the like.

If i have uncompensated recoil from my m16, I would expect alot more 'felt' recoil than with a SAW, due simply to the lack of weight of the m16 comparatively.

[Ed_209a]

Edit: hmm . . could one adapt the Barret or however that thing is spelled for Burst-Fire or Full-Auto? O.o

I think it would be relatively simple for a trained machinist/gunsmith to adapt a Barrett M82 for autofire. I just can't see why. You would give up the M82's main asset, long range precision, if you fired it full-auto. The weapon might tear itself apart too.

Anyone strong enough and massive enough to manage the M2's recoil won't mind the M2's weight. (90lbs + ammo)