Initiative Question Options

[XON2000]

Hi, everyone,

Imagine this classic setup: one character has a gun trained on another character whose weapon is holstered. This should be a dramatic situation, since the character with his gun in hand should have a clear advantage. But in Shadowrun, the advantage is minimal. If the unarmed character wins the initiative roll, he can draw his gun and fire before his assailant has a chance to move. Granted, he loses one of simple actions to preparing his weapon, but still...

How would you handle this situation? Would a simple bonus to initiative for the armed character do the trick?

Thanks,

Shawn

[Glyph]

I would treat the character with the gun trained on the other character as having a held action.

[XON2000]

Ah yes. I should have mentioned that in my original post. I'd thought of handling it that way, but I figure that the unarmed character should have some chance of beating the armed character. If the armed character gets a held action, then even an opponent with cyber- or magic-enhanced initiative would have no chance of getting a shot off before the armed character.

So really, I'm looking for a way that the armed character would have a good chance of going first, but not a 100% chance.

[CollateralDynamo]

You could assume that they both had held actions. I'd imagine that the guy with the gun trained on him is expected some form of trouble...
So you could resolve it by having them make opposed initiative checks, or maybe just reaction checks. Whoever wins gets to take their turn first, then you go back to standard initiative. This means that a cybered or magic person COULD still be shot by a slow, meaty individual.

If that isn't enough of an edge to the man with a gun, then you could just give both parties a single standard action before going to standard initiative...but this would always allow the shooter to pop off a shot first.

I'm not sure if my rambling was much help.

[vladski]

It's classic gunslinger. You jsut go to rolling initiative. If the guy that's holstered wins, he gets to make a quick-draw and pop the guy.

The key here is to remember that a guy with his gun "holstered" is not "unarmed," he simply has his weapon in a resting position. (Now, if he has a AK97 slung over his shoulder, he is toast.) This is WHY there is a superiority in some situations for being proficient with a handgun worn in a holster. And, holstered guy still stands a chance for not managing his Quickdraw. Don't forget he possibly loses his smartlink (if it's not active already) and has no aim . His opponent quite possibly has an Aim and his smartlink on. Depending on if the guy with gun in hand is armored, even if the holstered guy makes his shot first, he quite possibly won't kill him or even do more than stun damage.

I'd say it's still a pretty tense situation, if both guys are comparable Init -wise. And even a mook has a chance of winning if the Quickdraw-ist goofs his roll.

Quick Draw (BBB, 137)
A character may attempt to quick-draw a
pistol or pistol-sized weapon and immediately
fire it by expending a Quick Draw action. For
the character to successfully draw the weapon,
the player must make a Pistols + Reaction (3)
Test. If the pistol is held in a quick-draw holster
(see p. 311), reduce the threshold to 2. If the
test is successful, the character draws the pistol
and fi res as a single Quick Draw Simple Action.
If the test fails, he clears the gun but cannot fire
with the same Simple Action. If he glitches, the
gun is stuck in the holster or dropped. On a
critical glitch, it is flung across the room or
misfired while still in the holster.

Any yokel that thinks he can kill the Sundance Kid with his shotgun simply aimed at him in a shootout is seriously mistaken. Sundance is gonna outdraw and outfire him more likely than not.

Sundance: "Can I move?"
Percy: "Move? What the hell you mean move?"
Blam, blam!
Sundance: "I'm better when I move."
Percy: "Yeah. Well, considering I am desperate and you are just what I am looking for...we start tomorrow morning"
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)

Vlad

[XON2000]

But Quickdraw just lets a character prepare his weapon and shoot in the same simple action. It doesn't allow him to shoot any sooner in the turn. A good Quickdraw roll will allow the shooter to get two shots on his turn instead of one, since he doesn't lose an action to drawing the gun, but in this situation, it's the initiative roll that is most important, but the character with his gun out doesn't get any advantage in initiative.

A simple bonus to the initiative roll would probably do the trick; I was just wondering if anyone else had a more clever solution.

[vladski]

But Quickdraw just lets a character prepare his weapon and shoot in the same simple action. It doesn't allow him to shoot any sooner in the turn. A good Quickdraw roll will allow the shooter to get two shots on his turn instead of one, since he doesn't lose an action to drawing the gun, but in this situation, it's the initiative roll that is most important, but the character with his gun out doesn't get any advantage in initiative.

A simple bonus to the initiative roll would probably do the trick; I was just wondering if anyone else had a more clever solution.

I was responding that I don't think it's broken or needs fixed. A guy with a good initiative should be able to Quickdraw his gun ahead of the guy holding off with a weapon trained on him. This is why there is a Quickdraw action.

Obviously, if the guy holding the gun on Sundance is holding his action, then he wins and is gonna fire first no matter how slow he is. But in a case of stalemate (which I believe a guy swinging his weapon around and "aiming" at a guy and saying "Hold it right there, partner!" is), at that point, you move to your next initiative pass. Don't forget, the mook can spend Edge to go first, if he likes, causing the runner to spend Edge as well to take it back to an Initiative test.

Vlad