Non-Police, Who Watches Where The Watchmen Don't ?? Options

[Synner667]

Hi,

Found my old copy of SLA Industries and then thought about policing in the non-policed parts of cities.

If the police won't maintain Law'n'Order in places [since they usually only patrol the "nicer" areas], who does ??

The Yaks [Yakuza] maintain peace in places they control, and I wouldn't put it past La Familia [Mafia] to do something similar..
..Not necessarily out of the goodness of their hearts, and not for protection money.

If they're doing the policing, few rogue elements would cause trouble..
..Because they'd end up with concrete wellies and a [short] life with the fishes.


In SLA, being a freelance operative is a viable Character..
..Complete with live media coverage, sponsorship and taking on the crims and tasks the official police don't want to handle - or just haven't got round to, yet.


Any Adepts [Batman. or Rorchach, come to mind] or Cyborgs [Cyborg, from the Titans] taken on the role of Vigilante, to serve and protect the neighbourhood ??

[Stahlseele]

not to my knowledge . . well, maybe some wizzer-gangs or something like that . . the spikes will probably try and make life easier for the trolls in their turf and the ancients are going to do the same for dandelion-eaters . . but aside from that? nah, such people usually don't live long enough to really make a dent

[CanRay]

Shadowhoods, that's about it.

There's probably people that have tried that. But, sorry, this is Cyberpunk, there's too many Street Monsters for them, and they just get eaten up.

But they do leave behind stories.

[paws2sky]

I guess that's probably how the Ork Underground works/ Especially outside Touristville, I suspect you'd have volunteer gangs of youths who keep the peace.

The Elf "enclave" in the Barrens (Puyallup?) probably works similarly, though they'd probably look more like a community militia, rather than a gang.

Humanis gangs would "patrol" human-oriented neighborhoods for "undesirables."

Sydicates would definiately patrol their turf in lower security areas (C-D). Heck, they might even have the local Lone Star paid off to keep their noses out of business, meaning the mob is the only law in the area. I doubt a syndicate would bother with a Z-Rated zone unless they had an operation there.

You know, I could even see a crazy, irritatable, or even a community conscious rigger patrolling his/her neighborhood with drones. (Google for, iirc, "Bumbot" for a RL example of this.)

[WeaverMount]

I think you guys pretty much nailed it with people looking after there own. You see that happen literally over night when traditional institutions of control break down. The other thing to keep in mind is that a mafia "Death Penalty" would just somehow end crime. While I don't want to get into a death penalty argument the data are in on it not being an effective deterrent. Plus I see a lot of street level SR crime be motivated out of real and perceived need. Illegal Latin immigrants to the USA do literally risk death in may case to get to the USA, because the alternitive mean watching there kids die a slow death from chemical the maquiladora flush though the shanty towns they live in.

What I would suggest you take away from that for your stories are all the new opportunities for peoples primary self label. Are you an dwarf first or a Barren Rat first? Are you a 'borg or 'trix ganger first? Who wins Evo or your 3rd wife? Who wins Evo or the 7th clone of your 3rd wife? Is there any level of salient bond among the awakened, because they are the only one who can "see" astral space. Say Ares dumps some really nasty shite that is making Back Ground count for a couple neighborhoods. Think about who would pull together to handle that.

[Siege]

Another example would be the "Guardian Angels" - its not unheard of for groups independent of traditional law enforcement to enforce the peace or status quo for differing motivations.

Absolute anarchy rarely exists beyond a short period of time - riots, for example. As a defined (oxymoron?) culture, not really.

Except, perhaps, for life during an active combat zone - but even then, there are typically laws and rules implemented by the varying forces involved.

-Siege

[Cthulhudreams]

I imagine that most of the organised crime groups provide actual protection in return for protection money. They are more 'Hamas' than 'chicago mafia'

[Coldan]

Well, the point to get is easy.

Gangs don't want to have trouble at their turf, so they keep out other gangs. The people, who live their have to pay money for protection. Well, it isn't the nice way, but with the right payments, you get a little bit protection. When the syndicates move in, they have the choice, either they recruit the current gang or the drive out the gang and need their own people there.

If the gang accepts, they will get protection by the syndicat, so other syndicates won't be able to move in easily, because the gang has got some big brother they can call.

At last it is a balance of power there, the gangs keep other gangs out and the syndicates keep other syndicates out. The gang will be your worst enemy and your best friend if you live there. It protects you except from themselves. So you still are in danger, but no gang leader will get much money, when he lets his gang members go away to hurt or kill the people in the area, because, if they do so, the people can also call in help. Shadowrunners are one example, but also other gangs and the current gang can lose their best advantage, the knowledge of the area, when the other gang get help from the people.

That's the way I think about the rules of power in the shadows.


Greetings,
Coldan

[Cthulhudreams]

The criminal organisations in SR are much more pervasive than gangs of today or whatever.

Hamas however actually runs schools, cracks down on corruption, does social welfare and provides policing. It also has a stir crazy political wing that advocate the destruction of another state (though they got elected for the first bit, not the second bit).

Given the strong parallels - lack of government control, lack of social structures and welfare, semi isolated economically (due to lack of SINs in 2070) circumstances are rather similar, and I don't see a reason that that the 2070 yakuza wouldn't be the same in the absence of anyone else.

[Synner667]

I imagine that most of the organised crime groups provide actual protection in return for protection money. They are more 'Hamas' than 'chicago mafia'

From all that I've read, the Yaks don't ask protection money from the man-on-the-street to keep the peace - it's public service, founded in their roots of being for the people and the honour codes they [mainly] adhere to..
..Although, obviously, they are criminals with all their revenue streams [prostitution, theft, industrial espionage, corruption, gambling, etc]

If I remember right, they actively worked to help people during WWII, because of their strong patriotic views

[sunnyside]

In addition to the above I seem to recall instances of mages being able to set up camp in specific spots. I remember something like that in Bug City. And I seem to recal something similar in the plastic jungle out in the barrens.

I would think this sort of set up could work because mages can be crazy powerful while not having to actually be guarding anything worth fighting over.

[Cthulhudreams]

From all that I've read, the Yaks don't ask protection money from the man-on-the-street to keep the peace - it's public service, founded in their roots of being for the people and the honour codes they [mainly] adhere to..
..Although, obviously, they are criminals with all their revenue streams [prostitution, theft, industrial espionage, corruption, gambling, etc]

If I remember right, they actively worked to help people during WWII, because of their strong patriotic views

Oh sure, but they will shake down the dodgey shop owners dealing in stolen goods (ie everyone in the 'lawless' areas outside of the megacorp control with the associated KE/LS enforcement contract.)

[Synner667]

Oh sure, but they will shake down the dodgey shop owners dealing in stolen goods (ie everyone in the 'lawless' areas outside of the megacorp control with the associated KE/LS enforcement contract.)

Indeed..
..Though not necessarily that different from insurance companies (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also, not sure that all shops outside of MegaCorp areas deal in stolen goods - any more than all shops in the MegaCorp areas only deal in legal things

[Cthulhudreams]

It's certainly grey market stuff. For example, do they pay tax? The answer is logically no to the feds, though the Yakuza might be government by proxy. So the goods are certainly 'shady' if not 'stolen''

[MYST1C]

Absolute anarchy rarely exists beyond a short period of time - riots, for example.

Anarchy means there's no ruler. It doesn't mean there can't be rules.

[Siege]

Anarchy means there's no ruler. It doesn't mean there can't be rules.

Main Entry:
an·ar·chy Listen to the pronunciation of anarchy Listen to the pronunciation of anarchy
Pronunciation:
\ˈa-nər-kē, -ˌnär-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Medieval Latin anarchia, from Greek, from anarchos having no ruler, from an- + archos ruler — more at arch-
Date:
1539

1 a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a: absence or denial of any authority or established order b: absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>

Depending on which particular definition you subscribe to - yes.

-Siege

Edit: Interesting political dead horse - without a ruler, who enforces the rules?

[Fortune]

The mob!

[Shiloh]

Edit: Interesting political dead horse - without a ruler, who enforces the rules?

Or a religious dead horse... the rules in question being the "laws" of Nature... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

On a more generally philosophical view, the enforcer of the rules is always the environment. If that environment includes someone (a ruler) who can either directly or by proxy enforce their subset of rules, then so be it. Absent such an authority, though, they are "what you can get away with". If the Mob don't know you're offending them, you're golden. Or if the Mob can't find/catch/touch you, ditto.

[Patrick Goodman]

If the police won't maintain Law'n'Order in places [since they usually only patrol the "nicer" areas], who does ??

It's been a while since I dusted it off and looked at it, but I have considered this question before.