[X] My Assistant

[ravensmuse]

Just have two quick questions -

1. Are there quick conversions of old adventures posted anywhere? I ran Dark Angel this weekend for my girlfriend and niece, and now I'm thinking about converting the whole thing wholesale, but wanted to see if anyone else has tried before...

2. And having acquired a copy of Shadowbeat, has there been any conversions of the rocker rules?

Thanks!

[CanRay]

Wish I could offer assistance, but I'm just going to redouble the request for Rocker Rules!

[Synner667]

Because of the radical differences between SR1-3 and SR4, I don't think you can do a "quick conversion"..
..The best way to do it would be to redo them to "feel" about right.


Personally, I think the lack of scenarios for SR4 will be the death of it >shrug<


Wish you luck with wanting rules for anything apart from overgunned mercenaries..
..The SR rules seem make it quite clear it's a game where all the Characters are criminals, with an emphasis on gunplay.


The way the rules have been redone forces Players into certain roles, because nothing else works in the game

[ravensmuse]

Because of the radical differences between SR1-3 and SR4, I don't think you can do a "quick conversion"..
..The best way to do it would be to redo them to "feel" about right.

I don't know. I was able to eyeball it pretty easily while I was running it - I was just pressed for time and couldn't do an in-depth conversion beforehand. Sure I didn't have a whole lot of AR (that stuff takes time to think up) but I didn't see a lot of difference between 1e/2e and 4e.

Wish you luck with wanting rules for anything apart from overgunned mercenaries. The SR rules seem make it quite clear it's a game where all the Characters are criminals, with an emphasis on gunplay. The way the rules have been redone forces Players into certain roles, because nothing else works in the game.

Well, the game is Shadowrun, and people do expect certain things when they hear the name. But again I'd disagree, as I think that from the BBB on, they've given a lot of information on what the Sixth World is like from the shadows and the light (even though the stated intention is "ground level, gritty" campaign setting). It's a simple matter of having restrictions; I don't know if you're familiar with Wakshanni's 320 BP challenge, but as I wrote characters for it, I got a really good feel for making relatively "mundane" characters. You just have to watch the BP totals and Availability Ratings.

Hell, I've been thinking of doing a "Real Sixth World: Boston" game where I have people write up characters and walk them through their lives - shadowrunning being an option among many that they could pursue. I feel that the information given in the BBB and the supplements would enable that sort of thing easily.

...Searching the net and Dumpshock, I'm not seeing any conversions though. Hm. Maybe I'll be the first then (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[paws2sky]

Well, here are two starting points:
Older SR Archetypes to SR4 Thread
Sample Character Archive

No Rocker rules, exactly, but a couple attempts to convert the SR 1/2 Rocker over to 4th.

Its been a long time since I looked at it, but... If you have Shadowbeat, I'd suggest just using the prices for gear from that book. The SR4 Artisian skill covers playing music. You can take a Knowldge skill for musical composition. Use the Edit program for you commlink instead of a mixing board, maybe? Or Edit, a Holoprojector, and similar things if you want to include Augmented Reality in your show. Income from producing music shouldn't be too hard to convert.

I haven't seen any attempts to convert old adventures to SR4. Most of it can be eyeballed or played of fthe cuff. You could probably post names and stats for old adventure NPCs, without any descriptions of them... Hmm. I'd run that by an Admin first though. Sounds like a good seed for a new community project though.

If you're looking for pre-made SR4 adventures, take a look at the free Shadowrun Missions. They're designed to be run at conventions in 3-4 hours. I'm hoping to get them started up with my gaming group in the near future.

-paws

[Ancient History]

You could, if you were feeling particularly masochistic, use the SR2->SR3 conversion in the back of the SR3 book and then the SR3->SR4 conversion to work all the characters...but that's really a lot of hassle for the module.

[ravensmuse]

No Rocker rules, exactly, but a couple attempts to convert the SR 1/2 Rocker over to 4th.

See, and that was kind of what I was looking for, to see if anyone had ported over the "influence" rules from Shadowbeat. They're very interesting, and remind me (if you'll excuse anime talk for a moment) of the way Robotech or Megatokyo use J-Pop Idols as WMDs. On a tangent, it's weird how much of Megatokyo fits into SR...

I just haven't had a chance to go in-depth with Shadowbeat - we'll see how easily translated it is.

I haven't seen any attempts to convert old adventures to SR4. Most of it can be eyeballed or played of fthe cuff. You could probably post names and stats for old adventure NPCs, without any descriptions of them... Hmm. I'd run that by an Admin first though. Sounds like a good seed for a new community project though.

That's what I figured I'd do. Just do an update to the character and location stats, since SR2 and 4 have different assumptions for tech.

If you're looking for pre-made SR4 adventures, take a look at the free Shadowrun Missions. They're designed to be run at conventions in 3-4 hours. I'm hoping to get them started up with my gaming group in the near future.

Thanks!

You could, if you were feeling particularly masochistic, use the SR2->SR3 conversion in the back of the SR3 book and then the SR3->SR4 conversion to work all the characters...but that's really a lot of hassle for the module.

Yeah, I think that sounds like a little too much work when eyeballing did me just fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Since I have your attention though, has Remy from Virtual Realities ever made a second appearance in SR?

[Speed Wraith]

Personally, I think the lack of scenarios for SR4 will be the death of it >shrug<

I tend to worry about that myself. One of the great things about 2e was the wealth of truly great pre-written adventures/mods. But to do them well requires some decent talent, or overworked writers.

The way the rules have been redone forces Players into certain roles, because nothing else works in the game

I don't know...I've got a character in my group that describes himself as a street sam/rigger/hacker. Besides which, I think that those roles are the same ones that players were more-or-less forced into since 1e (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Teams have almost always needed needed (in a stereotypical SR campaign, I've always wanted to try to do a drama-heavy Doc Wagon 'mini-series' or something) muscle, a magician and a hacker. Blame DnD for that, if you have to blame anything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[paws2sky]

The way the rules have been redone forces Players into certain roles, because nothing else works in the game

Little confused by that last bit ("nothing else works"), otherwise I'd say that SR4 seems to press players to generalize (have three or more areas of expertise) rather than specialize. That strikes me as being very different than other editions.

I've seen lots of Mage/Hacker/Face or Hacker/Rigger/Face or Hacker/Rigger/Gunbunny or whatever. On the other hand, the groups I've played with in SR1-2-3 really only saw people branch out when they had some experience under their belts and cash on their credsticks.

You could, if you were feeling particularly masochistic, use the SR2->SR3 conversion in the back of the SR3 book and then the SR3->SR4 conversion to work all the characters...but that's really a lot of hassle for the module.

Seems... excessive. But, it certainly is an option for people who are sticklers about such things.

See, and that was kind of what I was looking for, to see if anyone had ported over the "influence" rules from Shadowbeat. They're very interesting, and remind me (if you'll excuse anime talk for a moment) of the way Robotech or Megatokyo use J-Pop Idols as WMDs. On a tangent, it's weird how much of Megatokyo fits into SR...

Ah, the 80's notion that music can change the world. *sigh* I'm sure the influence rules were at least partial inspired by Robotech and similar fiction/movies/shows/etc.

OT: Anyone remember the GI Joe episode(s?) with Zartan's band, Cold Slither?

I just haven't had a chance to go in-depth with Shadowbeat - we'll see how easily translated it is.

You're tempting me to run home at lunch to take a quick look at Shadowbeat... hmm. I wonder if that's one of the books down at my my storage building. Bleh, maybe I'll just save myself a trip and look for it tonight.

I suspect it won't be too hard to convert.

[Ancient History]

Since I have your attention though, has Remy from Virtual Realities ever made a second appearance in SR?

Yes.

[ravensmuse]

Ah, the 80's notion that music can change the world. *sigh* I'm sure the influence rules were at least partial inspired by Robotech and similar fiction/movies/shows/etc.

You're tempting me to run home at lunch to take a quick look at Shadowbeat... hmm. I wonder if that's one of the books down at my my storage building. Bleh, maybe I'll just save myself a trip and look for it tonight.

I suspect it won't be too hard to convert.

Do it! Do it!

There's all sorts of fun to be had with rules like those!

Yes.

But you're not going to tell me, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Do I have to go digging through the Ancient Files? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ancient History]

Renny had a cameo in, as I recall, Target: Matrix.

[ravensmuse]

Renny had a cameo in, as I recall, Target: Matrix.

Thank you!

Renny and Doc Halberstrom were my favorite characters in old SR lore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Synner667]

Paws2Sky : I don't necessarily mean that SR1-3 Characters can't be done [converted, created from scratch], but the rules really aren't aimed at anything but a minority of the Characters that were available.

Trying to convert those Characters is doable, but there's little to support that character in the game - Rockers, Corporates, Tribesmen all come to mind.
They appear to have been erased from the background of the game, in favour of generic 'Runners - the now common gun-toting, super-hacking, magic-using, vehicle-driving, sweet-talking do it all.


I really wanted to like SR v4.0, as it uses basically the same rules as Aeon Trinity..
..But I find it deeply flawed and much of what I liked about SR has gone >sigh<

But that's my view and I'm sure there are lots of people who enjoy not having anything except the version of 'Runners encouraged in SR v4.0

[ravensmuse]

Trying to convert those Characters is doable, but there's little to support that character in the game - Rockers, Corporates, Tribesmen all come to mind. They appear to have been erased from the background of the game, in favour of generic 'Runners - the now common gun-toting, super-hacking, magic-using, vehicle-driving, sweet-talking do it all.

I think I get what you're saying - that there isn't enough world support for running, say, a Lone Star game, or an investigative reporter game. But myself, I'd say there was.

Okay. So my aforementioned rocker influence rules aren't there any more. Maybe they'll be covered by Companion, maybe they won't. But that doesn't mean that I can't use the RAW as it is now and play a rockstar.

Let's use an example that paws already gave us in this thread:

...I'd suggest just using the prices for gear from that book. The SR4 Artisian skill covers playing music. You can take a Knowldge skill for musical composition. Use the Edit program for your commlink instead of a mixing board, maybe? Or Edit, a Holoprojector, and similar things if you want to include Augmented Reality in your show. Income from producing music shouldn't be too hard to convert.

Boom. Spice with magic, hacking, cyber, what have you, to flavor. Serves one party.

(there's more, but I'm homeward bound. I'll be back.)

[paws2sky]

Oh, I get what you're say now. I thought you were taking a stab at the flakiness of some of the rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I'm also a bit disappointed with some of the fluff changes/updates. I know that time marches on and all, but some of the things that they've marginalized used to be huge elements of the setting (the NAN, of instance). I miss that stuff.

Rockers, Detectives, and still have a place in the world, but they're less appropriate to general campaigns. Now, one based out of LA, for instance, would be ideal for that kind of social and/or information gathering character. Or maybe even a lower powered 'street life' campaign.

As amused as I am by them, Rockers were kind of a joke character in our gaming circle, even after Shadowbeat came out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

My real laments are the unbiquitousness of cyberdecks commlinks and the death (re)birth of deckers hackers.

[SprainOgre]

OT: Anyone remember the GI Joe episode(s?) with Zartan's band, Cold Slither?

Now that you mention it, yes, yes I do. And now a few chords for the song are ringing in my head. Thanks, jerk.

Otherwise, I think some of the flavor changes are to separate it more from Cyberpunk. Some are to adapt it for a new generation of players who are going to be looking at the dark future through some very different cybereyes. Besides, it's not like the old fluff books no longer apply. Up the march of years a few decades, give some attention back to those factions you like, and Shadowrun with it. (Okay, that was a bad one, I know. I just couldn't resist. Sorry...)

All in all, the system as stands is pretty flexible. You want cyberdecks back in? Make commlinks just cell phones/PC's for the everyman with low end stats, and use the former commlink stats for the new generation of decks. You want rockers? Look as some of the adept influence powers, and adapt them to some new qualities for influencing people (take a page from the new martial arts stuff from Arsenal). It's not like the game designers are going to come to your home, beat you soundly, while screaming "you're doing it wrong!!" if you change something.

It's not 4th ed D&D after all...

[CanRay]

OK, everyone has CommLinks.

Does everyone have a High-End Hacker CommLink? No?

Hey, didn't most people have Pocket Computers? Cell Phones? SimSense Decks?

Certainly, if you had a home above Squatter-Level you had a DataTerm.

Guess what, that's all a CommLink is, all those combined. I described it to my Players as a "BlackBerry on Crack", which, of course, started a major CrackBerry series of jokes, but nevertheless...

Street Level people didn't have those items back then, and they don't have CommLinks now, either. They have their grubby little Certified CredSticks they've had since before Crash 2.0, and that's all they're going to get. They likely have a pocketful of wet Bluebacks (What I'm calling UCAS Dollars, see if you can spot the reference), and a few (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) on the stick and that's it. The only thing that's changed for them is that it's a bit more difficult to beg at the mall. Guess what, it wasn't easy earlier either.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

[Synner667]

It's not like the game designers are going to come to your home, beat you soundly, while screaming "you're doing it wrong!!" if you change something.

They'd better not, else I'll be in trouble !!

I've been using Aeon Trinity rules for my games for several years [before SR4 adopted them]...
...And non-standard CoC, CP2020, GURPS, HERO, BGC T:NE, rules and material.


Any Rules Police will just have to get in line and wait their turn (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Zak]

Any Rules Police will just have to get in line and wait their turn (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

They are still busy with hunting down BattleTech players anyway.

[ravensmuse]

Don't worry - if WotC comes for you, I've got enough 3.5 books to cover you all. And I'm buying 4e. I'll be a perfect distraction.

Anyway, "rock" rules. It can't just be for the disenfranchised punks, right? Right? Pop stars? Epic actors? Amazing writers? Social manipulation on a wide scale!

Yeah.

[CanRay]

Ironically, I just got asked about Former Trid and SimSense Stars being in power in Shadowrun.

The rules for this would help with that as well, which gives another angle that I really like!

[ravensmuse]

Ironically, I just got asked about Former Trid and SimSense Stars being in power in Shadowrun.

The rules for this would help with that as well, which gives another angle that I really like!

I'm going to give it a look over tomorrow. It shouldn't be a hard conversion - it's just making sure that it doesn't go out of control.

I'm thinking Rock Band campaign - who's with? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[CanRay]

One of the character concepts that one player had to put aside was for a Lawyer trying to do good for his Neighbourhood (He's now an NPC contact).

Looks like a ShadowTeam of Political Spin Artists might be in order...

[Fortune]

I'm thinking Rock Band campaign

Josie and the Pussycats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)