Magic Loss + Suppressing Crashed IC, Now where did I put those.... Options

[Mugzy]

Hey all,

After running a session recently, I went back to look for a couple of rules I thought were in the system, but I could not find in the 4e BBB!

First, was checking for magic loss due to application of a stim patch, or massive damage. In the past, Stim patches and such were of near kryptonite quality to magicians in terms of proximity. Since the change in how Magic as an attribute works (i.e. no longer an auto-6 for awakened characters, it's bought like any other attribute), I can see the rules about Magic Loss going the way of the dodo. The Healing rules still refer to the difficulty in healing an awakened character though. Is this the only hold over?

Second, a couple of sessions ago, the team's hacker was detected by some IC, and defeated it in cybercombat. In the older rules, he would have to suppress the IC in order to avoid triggering an alert, but doing so progressively makes his life more miserable (with TN modifiers back in the day for each IC suppressed). Are there rules for suppression still, or does the IC just trigger an alert automatically?

I guess a third would be healing times. They seem awfully short. Someone shot only takes a couple of days to fully recover, especially if they edged their healing roll. Guess theres something to say about "Troll Regeneration" when a 9 body troll can fully recover from being practically hamburger in a week or less. The optional rules in the beginning of the book can address this (limit edge refresh, etc). Any other advice on this one? Maybe I'm just enamored with the grittier, more lethal game style.

[Muspellsheimr]

For magic, only burnout addicts, geas, & essence loss reduce it.

For the IC, I cannot say for sure, but I believe they trigger an alert as soon as the hacker is detected. If the hacker is aware of it, he may be able to redirect, stop, or spoof a signal.

For the healing, it is (in augmentation, I believe) stated that the rapid healing times are for ease of play, and explained with advanced medical technology in 2070. Optional rule for a grittier campaign, roll Body or Willpower for healing instead of Body x 2 or Body+Willpower. You could also simply increase the time of rest required per roll.

[Synner667]

All changed for "streamlining" and making SR v4.0 more "fun" for Players (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Malicant]

All changed for "streamlining" and making SR v4.0 more "fun" for Players (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Because "having fun" is a bad thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Synner667]

Because "having fun" is a bad thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Well, it sounded like the original poster wasn't too enamoured with the changes..
..So I'd rate that as reducing the fun he has when playing - but I guess you read that differently >shrug<

[Kyoto Kid]

...we brought suppressing IC back in.

[Sma]

A simple solution for the healing issue is making the base time for a healing test equal to damage boxes in days.

[Mugzy]

Well, not to say I wasn't having fun, it's just that I need to make a couple adjustments to my GM style to work those in to the game correctly.

I may just sic more IC on the hacker if he doesn't have to suppress anything, or I may build more intricate systems for him to infiltrate, or work with more security hackers instead.

Healing is kind of interesting. I'd like to see what I can do here. Advanced in Nanotech make it easy to heal without being so invasive I suppose.

[sunnyside]

There is a lot of disagreement on how exactly to handle hacking.

But generally leave the idea of a security sheave behind.

Instead first find how many programs the system can run simultaniously. For most systems worth a Hackers time that will be 5 or 6

You could add more programs, but their ratings start dropping.

Then add in stuff to that limit. There will almost always be analyze running on the system to detect people trying to get in.

For example on a 5 system there could be the analyze and then two IC loaded with attack programs that will launch on an intruder. Or maybe one IC could be searching around inside with its own analyze program, and only one could be held back with an attack program.

Stealth, trace, and armor are other programs that would see use.



Issues that are sort of open are

-what happens with IC crash? Are they just down for the count or do they reload as the rules seem to indicate?
-how often should a scanning IC get to roll to find a player?

[Abschalten]

I just want to comment that I utterly loathed SR3's magic loss mechanics. I hated that anybody who was awakened had to roll for magic loss everytime they farted or coughed. It was absurd. And by the rules of the mechanics, high-grade initiates with higher magic ratings and greater control of mana were MORE LIKELY to lose Magic than somebody with a low Magic grating.

I welcomed getting rid of all that in SR4. It makes magicians and adepts a little more daring and less "OH GOD PROTECT ME PLEASE!!!" in tense situations.

[Fortune]

I just want to comment that I utterly loathed SR3's magic loss mechanics. I hated that anybody who was awakened had to roll for magic loss everytime they farted or coughed. It was absurd. And by the rules of the mechanics, high-grade initiates with higher magic ratings and greater control of mana were MORE LIKELY to lose Magic than somebody with a low Magic grating.

I welcomed getting rid of all that in SR4. It makes magicians and adepts a little more daring and less "OH GOD PROTECT ME PLEASE!!!" in tense situations.

+1!

[Synner667]

I just want to comment that I utterly loathed SR3's magic loss mechanics. I hated that anybody who was awakened had to roll for magic loss everytime they farted or coughed. It was absurd. And by the rules of the mechanics, high-grade initiates with higher magic ratings and greater control of mana were MORE LIKELY to lose Magic than somebody with a low Magic grating.

Well, since that was meant to reflect that people with more magic were more in tune to the Magic around them and that is reflected in their ability to cast spells, those rules make sense.
It's part of being a Magician, which was written as being difficult.

In the same way as someone with an Allergy to sunlight should be more affected if they go somewhere with lots of sunlight, than if they stay in the shade.

Someone with a high Magic rating, should be more susceptible than someone with a low Magic rating, because they are more "connected" to the Magic.

[Malicant]

Well, since that was meant to reflect that people with more magic were more in tune to the Magic around them and that is reflected in their ability to cast spells, those rules make sense.

So it makes sense that someone who is more in tune with magic is easier to bring out-of-tune then a 'I could not care less' Magic 1 shmock. Wow, I never thought of it that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[sunnyside]

So it makes sense that someone who is more in tune with magic is easier to bring out-of-tune then a 'I could not care less' Magic 1 shmock. Wow, I never thought of it that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I think the idea was like, well, a tuned instrument. Take a guitar that's way out of tune and smack it around a little, get it wet. It'll still sound about the same.

However you'll notice that a properly tuned instrument often requires adjustment at the venue just because of how easy it is to wind up with slightly the wrong tension.

[Muspellsheimr]

The reasoning behind the rule makes sense. That does not excuse it from being retarded from a playability perspective.

The more I learn about 3rd & earlier, the more I am glad I started with 4th.

[WeaverMount]

The reasoning behind the rule makes sense. That does not excuse it from being retarded from a playability perspective.

The more I learn about 3rd & earlier, the more I am glad I started with 4th.

I do think deckers are cooler than hackers(what with having playable rules). I do envy the wealth of printed material. I suspect large DP allowed for some much needed granularity. Other than that? yeah I'll sell no-cyber adepts down the river for slicker rules.

[Malicant]

I think the idea was like, well, a tuned instrument. Take a guitar that's way out of tune and smack it around a little, get it wet. It'll still sound about the same.

The guitar can be easily re-attuned, but the mage losing magic cannot. He can pretend to not lose his tune (geas) or he can go out-of-tune for ever and ever (burnout).
Mages should get better, not more fragile.

[Blade]

What you can do with the healing is use the first aid modifiers to healing tests. This way the character will be able to heal quickly in a hospital (which with 2070 technology can be quite realistic) but it will take much longer without any medical support.

Sure trolls will steal heal quickly... but they are tough after all.

[Muspellsheimr]

Slower Healing
The basic Shadowrun rules opt for fast recovery times from injury in the interest of getting characters back in the game. Though not always realistic for characters with higher-than-norm attributes, speedy recovery can also be chalked up to advances in medical technology. If, however, your group prefers characters to feel their pain and for those who get taken down to stay down, we suggest adopting one of the following two options. This will result in characters being down for much longer periods of time and makes timely intervention with first aid and magical healing into a major concern rather than a short-term benefit.

*Apply the character's standard damage modifiers for his current wound level to the Stun and Physical Damage Healing Tests (p. 242, SR4. If the character's dice pool is reduced to zero, he will be unable to heal without medical assistance (see Using Medicine, p. 242, and Medkits and Autodocs, p. 243, SR4).
*Use only Body rather than Body x 2 for Physical Damage Healing Tests (p. 242, SR4).

I like the idea of wound modifiers personally.