John Q. Everyman, Creating the average civilian? Options

[masterofm]

O.k. so I was thinking about how most everyone has an average stat of 2 and maybe 1 or 2 stats at three, so I decided to create an average wage slave in the SR setting (this one works in computers.)

John Q everyman is around a 150-160 bp character (using SR4 rules) I figured by adding what I would expect a normal person to know or have around their skill settings.

John Q. Everyman - Data entry

Metatype : Human
Mundane

Attributes
Body: 2
Agility: 2
Reaction: 2
Strength: 2
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 2
Logic: 3
Willpower: 2

Edge: 2
Initiative: 4
Essence: 6

Qualities: SINner - (name your game)

Low Lifestyle

Knowledge Skills
English : N
Matrix Games : 2
Sports : 2
Area Knowledge : 3
Sci-Fi Sims : 1
Urban Brawl Schedule : 1
Club Circuit : 2
Bars : 2
Liqour : 1
Wines : 1

Active Skills
Pilot Ground Craft : 2
Etiquette : 1
Data Search: 2
Computer : 3
Software : 3
Electronics : 1

He has about 700-1,200 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth of clothes

Honda Spirit (Subcompact)

Stuff -
Commlinks
Commlink : Sony Emperor
OS : Renraku Ichi
Browse (Rating 2)
Edit (Rating 2)
Scan (Rating 2)
AR Gloves
Trodes
Printer
Satellite Link - (in his home)
Miracle Shooter
Virtual Person
Virtual Surround Music
VR Game
Wall Space
Glasses
Certified Credstick (Silver)
Survival kit (for the knife and some extra food if need be)
Medkit (r1 or r2)
4x Medkit supplies

Contacts
Social contact #1 (L:4 C:1)
Social contact #2 (L:3 C:1)
Social contact #3 (L:1 C:1)
Social work contact # 1 (L:2 C:1)
Social work contact #2 (L:1 C:1)


I'm sure there are a few more things he could have (like one or two more contacts,) but this is probably what most wage slaves probably possess. Does someone want to roll up another John Q. Everyman in a different professional job I think that would be great. Maybe some other SR versions would be nice as well just to help people out.

[sunnyside]

Just a quick comment. Some skills at rating 0 are considered to be the "common" level of knowledge. So you can change your oil on a mechanics skill of 0. You just might take langer and critically botch all over your nice shirt.

[ElFenrir]

Basically, I think you're totally onto it. John Q. Everyman would have a 3 in the stat that he most often uses. Dockworker or mechanic? Strength 3. Librarian? 3 logic. Professional typist? 3 agility. Media joe schmoe? 3 Charisma.

Give him a native language, any knowledge skills(i say a few toward his job, some interests or whatnot), and basically what you did. A mechanic might even have Clubs 1(hey, he might be handy at threatening some shady guy trying to steal something with a wrench.) Automotive Mechanic 3, a point or so in Etiquette, maybe a couple points in Industrial Mechanic, maybe a few Joe Everymen might have a 1 or so in Data Search(it's used pretty often.)

Given some time i could go ahead and stat them out. I think i'll come back with a couple for fun, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[MarCazm]

I would change Strength, Agility or Body to 1. If the Wageslave Computer Nerd doesn't workout that much and just puts his freetime in AR Entertainment.

[stevebugge]

Depending on the job and skill level skills and attributes could range from 2-4, maybe a few 5's in skills for specialists. Some people are above and some below average. Still if you have time to stat out every employee in every Stuffer Shack, you have much more prep time than I do.

[ElFenrir]

I would change Strength, Agility or Body to 1. If the Wageslave Computer Nerd doesn't workout that much and just puts his freetime in AR Entertainment.

I'd say a 2 is more appropriate, honestly. TO me, a 2 is dead average, unexceptional, what the masses have if they don't really bother with it-but aren't unhealthy. Not good, not bad, just...there. a 1 is the lowest stat you could have; to me, a 1 means you are pretty down low. I've known plenty of office people, just everyday, normal office people-and most of them aren't THAT flimsy or weak. They're just...well, average.

I know this sort of leaves it so there really no longer *is* a below average score; it was one of the drawbacks to an already fairly grainy scale, that kicked things down another notch. in the older SRs, where 3 was the 'John Q. Everyman' stat, with a 4 being his ''job stat'', the 2 was the 'underdeveloped' stat-that might have been about accurate for the computer guy- and the 1 was the 'you're damn weak' stat.

Now, with 2 being the 'everyman' stat, 3 being the 'not too uncommon but still a little more developed', that still leaves 1 as 'the lowest you can go''-and usually, well, the way we play it, 1's are sort of reserved, for, well, weak stats. Again, this sort of takes away the 'underdeveloped' stat, but I don't think that the room full of computer programmers is full of weaklings who can't carry more than 5 kg without a test(im rather weak myself, with mild early-onset arthritis and even I can lift more than that) or who catch a cold by looking at it.

[masterofm]

I feel like most "specialists" took the 2 bp of "specialization." I doubt they roll 5 dice for everything, but if you get the comlink repair specialist then he probably has a 3 in electronics w/ a specialization in comlinks. I'm sorry but if Shadowrunners get 2 skills @ 5 I'm sorry I just don't see how an average civilian could sport that kind of mad ski11z.

Also keep in mind a SWAT member is not John Q. Everyman wage slave. They have a few select stats and skills of 4 w/ a possible specialization in one or two fields (like infiltration 3 - specialization urban.) 5, and 6's are for high end people, not some street sweeper or bartender.

I'm would still give my character stats of 2 across the board as even though he only has an average str of 2 and body of 2 he would because a secretary, the person who scans your groceries at the local stuffer shack would have a body and str of 2.

*edit* changed automotive mechanic from 1 to 0 and added an electronics skill of 1. *edit*

[Siege]

I'm a big fan of the quirky sorts - the wageslave who practices MMA on the weekends or is a competitive bodybuilder.

The National Guardsman is another fun one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

-Siege

[sunnyside]

Actually per page 62 a 3 is average for a stat. Though wageslaves may be a little below average.

Also for the "regular" type contacts listed, like bartender and blogger, their numbers a more in line with that (you see 4's but lots of 2's )

I do think some 1's should be floating around, but probably more on an indavidual basis.

[ElFenrir]

Oh, 1's exist, sure-just like some everymen might just have a 4 or so.

And that chart in the SR4 BBB has been discredited a bunch of times on the forums. There were actually a bunch of good threads on it in the past. Since SR4 brought the numbers down from SR3, that chart, copy and pasted from SR3, no longer works anymore. (It's basically been said 3 back then is the new 2, 4 then is the new 3, a 5 then would have been a 4...and so on. They had a 'conversion equation' thing in converting SR3 to 4, and the stats are always lower.)

[stevebugge]

I'd agree that in most cases 1 rates attributes should be rare, it's a noticeably underdeveloped attribute that's obvious either by observation (physical) or a short encounter (mental/social). Skills are a different issue, there are a huge number of skills that most citizens will have 0's or 1's in.

[Fortune]

Actually per page 62 a 3 is average for a stat.

Which is silly! That puts Joe Pedestrian with 160 BP worth of Attributes, barring Edge.

I'm more comfortable with 2.5 as an average, with a mix of 2s and 3s.

[masterofm]

Well you see the average citizen according to some people have about 300-320 bp. I mean it makes perfect sense, because 400 bp shadowrunners are only slightly better then Joe Nobody. I mean run a setting where every single wage slave has like 4 or 5's in heavy weapons with a specialization in rocket launchers... oh and they all sport rocket launchers (w/ ap rockets.) Also they would have a 4 reaction, 4 agility, 4 int, and wired r2. So that means when you try to bust into a car and some civilian sees you your entire team is killed instantly. I mean it totally fits the setting *sarcasm off*

[Synner667]

Well you see the average citizen according to some people have about 300-320 bp. I mean it makes perfect sense, because 400 bp shadowrunners are only slightly better then Joe Nobody. I mean run a setting where every single wage slave has like 4 or 5's in heavy weapons with a specialization in rocket launchers... oh and they all sport rocket launchers (w/ ap rockets.) Also they would have a 4 reaction, 4 agility, 4 int, and wired r2. So that means when you try to bust into a car and some civilian sees you your entire team is killed instantly. I mean it totally fits the setting *sarcasm off*

Sarcasm aside, it kinda highlights one of the flaws in SR v4.0...
..If the average attribute is in the 2-3 range [which it should be, if 6 is the best you can get], 'Runners are seriously overpowered at generation time.

On the other hand, if the average is in the 4-5 range, a maxximum of 6 is rubbish.


Having 'Runners as better than the average is good, but when the average 'Runner seems to be near the maxximum at generation time, i don't think things are right.

[sunnyside]

I can see the desire to put the average at 2. But it seems like NPCs tend to have it higher than that.

What I'm saying is they may have cut and pasted the chart, but they seem to be sticking with it. That's just the impression I got from going through the NPCs in the book and I think missions as well. The only NPCs they have with lower stats are in the grunt section and then it's only the gangers (who have low mental stats which makes sense) and the humanis goons who are apperantly supposed to be inbred and not too put together in the head.

Your average corper sec guard is 3's already. (and LS are higher!).


Note that this doesn't make John Q Everyman on par with a runner! First of all they're still half the BP or less of a runner. Try playing against some 800BP characters.

But more importantly a guy on the street doesn't have the weapons skills, augments, mojo etc runners do. Which really sets them above. And in the current SR system being ahead in the dice pools is big!

[CanRay]

What's the average guy on the street packing? MAYBE a Colt L36 or some other light pistol, maybe armoured clothing, MAYBE.

What's your average Shadowrunner packing? At MINIMUM a Ares Predator IV or some other heavy pistol, and definetly some kind of good armour.

Yes, it's a dangerous world and everyone that can be armed, probably is armed and armoured, but they're not usually packing the expensive and heavy artillery, but just enough to scare off the streetpunks that come flashing blades and cheap Streetline Specials.

It's like the locks on your house or car. They keep out amatures and keep other people honest, but a professional can, and will, get in. And that's exactly what Shadowrunners are. Professionals.

[Daier Mune]

you forgot Positive Quality: Blandness

[Cthulhudreams]

why would joe average on the street only have a light pistol? You can seriously own assault rifles that are illegal in most of the OECD today in SR4 no questions asked. Obviously 'gun culture' has seriously taken off.

[sunnyside]

why would joe average on the street only have a light pistol? You can seriously own assault rifles that are illegal in most of the OECD today in SR4 no questions asked. Obviously 'gun culture' has seriously taken off.

Because even in SR you can't just walk through the mall with a kitted out assault cannon on your back.

Runners carry the heaviest thing thing they can because they need performance over comfort and the granularity of the system means the only downside of carrying the ridiculously huge Preditor heavy pistol is a modifier of 2 on concealability tests. There is no difference for kick or anything like that.

But for the more reality minded average Joe it better to have a smaller pistol you carry than a big one you don't. I mean today we have Desert Eagle .50s that people could carry. But in fact we see a whole lot of short 9mm pistols being carried.

However I really don't buy Lone Star carrying a L36. They're the Star, with their puffy jackets and sometimes ridiculous helmets. Personally I took one look at that and automatically upgraded them to Ruger Thunderbolts.

[Critias]

While I think you're pretty spot on (to the original poster), I wouldn't feel amiss giving John Q Average a datajack. It's continually described to us as the single most common (and useful, outside of the Shadows) piece of cyberware in the setting -- I could see it being included in a lot of hiring packages, especially for someone like a software engineer.

[Synner667]

why would joe average on the street only have a light pistol? You can seriously own assault rifles that are illegal in most of the OECD today in SR4 no questions asked. Obviously 'gun culture' has seriously taken off.

As with the current realworld, I think that's an Americanism...
..Although all parts of the world have people carrying guns, it's only Americans that insists that carrying guns is almost compulsory.

No society is going to allow or encourage people to all carry guns - that's wishful thinking, and continued by gun companies [as far as I know, everytime there's any talk of repealing the old gun carrying legislation/constitution, it's people like the Gun Associations and the gun manufacturers who argue it's a "right" to bear arms...
...That's all about the money, nothing about the constitution.

'Runners wouldn't be allowed to openly carry guns in 'polite' society, any more than they can now...
...And, in fact, with guncrime and random shootings as they are, there might be an argument for a gun amnesty/gun buy back.

'Runners are a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the population...
...And what they do, how they behave isn't really representative of the population as a whole,

[Critias]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sorry the nuts have been cut right off your once-proud empire, and you live in a society so neutered that the latest batch of laws are targeting fake guns of all things (and blaming THEM for crime, continuing the trend of not blaming criminals), but please stop talking about American gun ownership like you know what's going on over here. "As far as you know" is not very far.

[Grinder]

He's right about the part that people of other states don't carry guns with them, though. To a european it feels odd to just read about how many guns some people in the US own and that many US citizens actually carry a gun when they leave the house.

[masterofm]

Um... well not everyone in America owns a gun... in fact most people don't own one, but since we have an amendment that allows people to own firearms people think guns just grow on trees here for some reason. I don't know of a single person who actually walks around with a gun out in the open... well besides the cops. Most people who own guns don't go waving it around, and most of the people that I know do not own or carry firearms. Anyways.... yeah a datajack would probably be a good idea. Also if John Q. Everyman had a gun he would not bring it to work, as the corporations would probably shoot him or her.

[Critias]

Roughly one household in three (according to the most recent stats I can find) owns a firearm. That's a big chunk of the population, yes, but that's household. It might mean ultra-conservative dad owns a single .38 special that he never practices with and forgets he even owns while his wife and five kids hate guns, or it might mean 30 year old gamer kid has an SKS, an AK, a Glock, and a .22 bolt action and his wife plinks with a .22 revolver (making for two gun-owning Americans, but only one that owns anything practical for self defense). Or it might mean, y'know, that family from Tremors or whatever that old Kevin Bacon flick was, where two people own a hundred guns apiece. Not every American is a gun nut, not every American should be a gun nut, and even the most rabid pro-right-to-self-defense of us aren't walking around forcing people (at gunpoint, of course) to go out and buy guns.

But, roughly one household in three owns a firearm.

Of that one household in three, quite a few less have a concealed carry permit (several states don't even allow them). Of those that have concealed carry permit, quite a few less actually do carry with any regularity. Of those that carry with any regularity, quite a few less always have a gun on them, because there's plenty of places we're not allowed to go with them in many states (schools, churches, some malls, places that serve liquor, government buildings like post offices, etc, etc).

We are not, by and large, a bunch of zany cowboys running around playing shoot 'em up. The streets do not run red with blood due to Castle Doctrine laws and concealed carry permit holders. What gun violence everyone in the world is bombarded with by the media comes, primarily, in two flavors: inner city bullshit where stupid people ignore laws to do stupid things to one another (often with drugs somewhere in the equation), or the occasional rabid maniac sociopath who decides to take a gun into a soft target (a school, a church, a mall) where they know no one else is armed, and decides to immortalize themselves and become famous around the world by taking out his teeny-angst frustrations on everyone around him instead of just killing himself.

When you look at the number of guns in the country, the number of people in the country, and the number of times such crimes are commited, it happens with startling irregularity. For every instance of random gun violence you hear about, there are also all manner of other randomly horrible things that happen to people like plane crashes, car crashes, lightning strikes, heart attacks due to winning the big lottery, or being mauled by a bear or something.

While they come up very often here on Dumpshock -- given the subject matter of our average conversation, it's no surprise -- guns really don't in any way, shape, or form, "dominate" American culture. They don't grow on trees, you don't get them for free with video games, you don't get one for free with a driver's license, and, in fact, two thirds of American households don't own a single one. I guess maybe we're a pretty boring place except for our gun violence and our offensive President, because it seems more and more that that's all anyone cares about when it comes to us as a country. Sorry we're not more amusing.

It's worth pointing out, for instance, it wasn't even an American that brought them up for the first time in this very thread (which isn't me picking on you, CanRay, but rather me just pointing out it wasn't one of us rooting-tooting gunslinging Americans kicking in a door and shouting 'YEEHAW, blam blam blam blam, but what about guns?!" or something).