Power Foci and Enchanting, Yea or Nay? Options

[Sombranox]

Potentially kind of a munchy question and one I couldn't find a good answer too with my weak search fu, but do Power Foci add their rating to Arcana and Enchanting tests? I can't find something in street magic where it says no.


By BBB pg 192: A power focus adds its Force to all tests in which the magician’s Magic is included.

By Street Magic 83: Researching a focus formula is an Arcana + Magic (Force x Force, 1 day) Extended Test.

By Street Magic 84: Crafting a focus is an Enchanting + Magic (16 + Object Resistance, 1 day) Extended Test.


The reason I consider it a little munchy is that it leads to the cycle of building better foci using previous foci. Of course, it's a waste of karma, but with a power focus 2 and middling enchanting/decent arcana at the start, it's not _too_ hard to get a rating 4-6 power focus designed and enchanted, especially if using the optional rule that Air spirits can add Force to foci design rolls (36 successes extended isn't that hard with 13-16 dice).

After that, pay the exorbitant karma cost to bond the power focus 6 and you are suddenly a lot better not only at making other foci but at flinging spells and summoning spirits. Oh yeah, and you can do all of this in about two or three weeks with almost no real cost unless you get a few glitches on your design and are required to use exotic telesma.

Anyways, for my own table, I'm not sure if I'd allow it or not, but if anyone knows of some obscure (or really, really obvious and missed by me) reference in Street Magic for why power foci wouldn't add to those rolls, I'd appreciate the info. Thanks in any case.

[Cheops]

Generally I'd allow it because it means that all that karma isn't going into actually making the mage more versatile. You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard mages in my game say "I wish I had that spell..." Using a Power focus to fashion a bigger power focus. Congrats. Now you can toss that Force 12 stunball. Too bad what you really need right now isn't a high power stunball.

Note that the Power focus also technically makes you better at crafting Orichalcum which makes it easier to craft foci and bond them.

It's a neat trick but it only really is worthwhile for Enchanter Aspects.

[Speed Wraith]

I'd allow it in my game. To me, spending karma is like voting: it ain't my vote (karma), so I don't get a say in what you do with it. Even if they're my players (which they are).

To be honest though, I've rarely had problems with enchanter-types in any game, to my dismay. For the most part, they're cheapskates (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Let my mage max his magic and initiate and buy some more spells, and pick up an extra metamagic trick or two and max his drain attribute, then he might think about upping his foci some. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Ancient History]

It's a fair cop.

[JoelHalpern]

...
Note that the Power focus also technically makes you better at crafting Orichalcum which makes it easier to craft foci and bond them.
...

I have assumed, and I recall from SR 1, which I GMed many a long year ago, that Orichalcum would make foci easier to craft and bond. Street Magic does describe Orichalcum (and other ingredients) as making it easier to craft foci. But I can not find any indication that these ingredients have any effect on thekarma cost (or difficulty, or anything) of actually bonding the Foci. Am I missing something in the books?

Thank you,
Joel M. Halpern

[Sombranox]

It's a fair cop.

Heh. There's a phrase I haven't heard since my British friend went back across the pond.


Anyways. Thanks for the replies all. Guess it's allowed then. At least it's a hefty chunk of karma to bond a force 6 power focus.

Here's an odd question though. Once the force 6 formula is created, does it have to be created again? Or can someone create said force 6 power focus, bond it, and then create one after from the original formula?

Power foci for all the magicals in the group!

Power foci fenced for 45K+ per week or so that it takes to create more (150K by 30%+ from Fencing)!

Who needs to run the shadows when you can flood the market with goodies and buy all your friends permanent luxury lifestyles.

[Ancient History]

But I can not find any indication that these ingredients have any effect on thekarma cost (or difficulty, or anything) of actually bonding the Foci.

Nope. Nixed for purposes of fair play. You're welcome.

Or can someone create said force 6 power focus, bond it, and then create one after from the original formula?

It's like a blueprint. You can make as many foci from a given focus formula as you want to.

Who needs to run the shadows when you can flood the market with goodies and buy all your friends permanent luxury lifestyles.

This is why there are reagent requirements, time requirements, skill tests and all that other happy horseshite. Also, don't forget you still have to sell it.

[JoelHalpern]

Commenting on whether reagents affect bonding costs of Foci:

Nope. Nixed for purposes of fair play. You're welcome.

Thank you for clarifying.
Removing that bonus is probably a good idea.

Just to make sure I am reading this right, reagents are good for:
Making Talisman and Fetishes
Making Binding, Ritual Sorcery, and Lodge ingredients
adding dice to the foci crafting test.
Anything else?

I suppose that for some Foci, the Orichalcum bonus could be important. But for something that is supposed to be very important and very expensive, there does not seem to be much call or value for it. I presume I am missing something.

Thanks,
Joel Halpern

[Ancient History]

Reagents have plenty of uses - magical compounds are a new one. Orichalcum, besides making foci, is also used in one or two of the manatech devices in Arsenal.

[JoelHalpern]

Thanks for adding to the uses. I guess I'll have to wait till I get Arsenal (it's on the list, but I only recently got Street Magic. One book at a time.) and I'll better understand the value of those components. Fair enough.

Yours,
Joel Halpern

[Sombranox]

With the threshold for enchanting at most 20, maybe plus a little depending on if the GM goes beyond 4 with OR, someone with a dice pool of 12 or so is pretty much guaranteed to _eventually_ enchant anything they try to enchant. Then again, Fate being fickle, you could roll no successes twelve times or just critically glitch on your first roll.

Regardless, reagent bonuses are limited to +4. Orichalcum doesn't seem to have any limit to how many bonus dice you can put into it. So if you needed to create something _right now_ type of thing, then burning all the cash (or time creating) orichalcum would be worth it I guess.

The big limit on enchanting is the force x force threshold on the design or the force x 8 availability on buying a formula. It would have been cool if they'd have allowed extra dice on that design test for requiring the use of orichalcum or exotic reagents or something like that.

[Cheops]

Nope. Nixed for purposes of fair play. You're welcome.

Sorry...my bad. I = confused with 3rd.

AH: Quick question. Have stacked foci been clarified to mean 2 or more DIFFERENT types of foci? Or could you theoretically stack a Power 2 and Power 6?

[Stahlseele]

munchy like hell but the LETTER of the Rules probably allows it O.o

[Ancient History]

AH: Quick question. Have stacked foci been clarified to mean 2 or more DIFFERENT types of foci? Or could you theoretically stack a Power 2 and Power 6?

SM states "two or more types of foci," which implicitly disallows stacking two foci of the same type.

[fool]

Commenting on whether reagents affect bonding costs of Foci:


Thank you for clarifying.
Removing that bonus is probably a good idea.

Just to make sure I am reading this right, reagents are good for:
Making Talisman and Fetishes
Making Binding, Ritual Sorcery, and Lodge ingredients
adding dice to the foci crafting test.
Anything else?

I suppose that for some Foci, the Orichalcum bonus could be important. But for something that is supposed to be very important and very expensive, there does not seem to be much call or value for it. I presume I am missing something.

Thanks,
Joel Halpern

I'm not sure but I think reagents can also be used for creating vessels.
ans ammo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[weblife]

So, what is the OR of a bullet?

My Watchers might get a new job... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[crash2029]

So...theoretically anything could be enchanted as a focus. Say a pistol weapon focus, sure it would be the same at firing bullets, but it would have one hell of a pistol whip.

Emotitoys-mundane ally spirits?