Shadow Schools, or: Keeping the Kids off the Damned Street! Options

[CanRay]

Anyhow, back to the ShadowBrats...

Setting up the ShadowSkool would be difficult, but not impossible. Let's say that the starting team is a group of Shadowrunning Parents, and that we're dealing with an initial group of eight hard-hooped Mother-Fraggin' Momma's and Poppa's.

First, you need a building, perhaps even an old school. Let's say it's in Puyallup, just because the rent is cheaper there (The Bums only get into fistfights over alleyways, rather than pull knives like they do in Redmond!). First, get rid of the original tennants, easy enough considering the group, maybe even offer a job to one or two on classes of Urban Survival.

Next, school supplies. A Truckload of cheap computers/commlinks is easy enough to boost, and you won't need the whole load, or the truck, so get a Fixer to offload those for expenses. Books are on chip, or either Fileshare 'em, or steal 'em as well.

Next up, a Skoolbus. Well, one of the people in the Shadow'Rents is a mechanic, so get some old beater of a bus, and fix it up. Then steal a few container trucks from the docks, with one being building supplies, offload the unuseable merchandise through various fixers (More for the budget!), and use the container metal to armour up the bus. Then sell/strip the trucks.

Fixing up the building is a bit more of a sticky situation, but I'm sure there's skills out there for the having, grab a few of the SINless in the area that keep their slums in decent shape, get them to fix the place up in exchange for spaces for their kids. Simple, with the right connections (And everyone knows that a 'Runner lives and dies by their connections!).

Then start classes, with the occasional Shadowrun to keep the school in business. After one, two years, you'll have the Advanced Students boosting Americars and Sports Cars to strip, which will help with the budgetary concerns, have additional resources through neighbourhood connections, and be seen as a positive impact in the community.

Now, the downside, gangs trying to bust up something like this, because, you know, school is so Gaz. Well, A pair of 250-Kilo of Cybered Troll Mommy and Daddy will nip that in the bud real quick, and provide some lunchtime entertainment for the Shadowbrats!

So, in essence, long start-up time, but almost self-sustaining after awhile!

[Zak]

From an IC perspective, with the above mentioned skillsets, would it not be more reasonable to try your best to get out of the barrens and pay for homeschooling?

Sorry, I just have a bleak view on this. I can't see gangs leaving infrastructure like this alone. And the last you want as a concerned parent is your kids ending up as small gangers. So a shadow school could maybe work, but set up by shadowrunners who could afford to live somewhere else and give their kids a save environment? I highly doubt it.

To clarify this: Living in the barrens might be ok if you are a bad ass shadowrunner who can afford dealing with the risks, but do not romanticise this. Robin Hood is dead. He was killed by Brother Tuck over a pack of soybeans.

[CanRay]

Depends upon their view. Sure, you could get out of the Barrens, get out, get a house in the 'Burbs with a white picket fence and a puppydog with a waggily tail... And be part of the system, hoping that someone doesn't try to test that Bullet-Proof SIN you hope you got.

Or you could actually start trying to do some good for the Barrens and try to turn it around, and not be part of the system you've learned to love to hate.

And, frankly, when even the CORP Neighbourhoods are having Street Gang issues (Thrill Gangers mostly, rather than Street), no place is safe from that. And, at least, it's a lot easier to demonstrate to a Street Gang why it's a really bad idea to start messing with Little Suzy.

Just take 'em down to the local Alleydoc, and point out which limbs you recently sold to him, and how theirs would fit in the jars so very nicely.

[Cthulhudreams]

You know how Hamas got their gig really going on in Palestine? Cracking down on corruption and starting schools and stuff. While the version as presented is a bit unrealistic, there is every incentive for the Yakuza to start a school in the slums in hong kong with protection money. Gets people on your team allowing you to move in on the triads, securing more protection money and more business.

Bizarrely despite my pessimism about government services, the Yaks or triads or whoever might totally do it.

[Zak]

Yea, organised crime, some anarchist communities, maybe even a gang will try to start this. But they are not really better than any corp. They have their own agenda which you either agree to or you are out.

Nothing speaks against a group of shadowrunners trying to make the Barrens a better place. But in my games there will be alot of others trying to take it away, scavenge the little they can get out of it and leave the rest to rot again.

One thing you should not forget is healthcare and other basic services. They are a bitch to get in the Barrens.

[CanRay]

Yeah... And that differs from Public Education how?

I've known students that were expelled from my school for not toeing the line.

Hell, I *WAS* expelled!

But, yes, you're right, the ShadowSkool would have to fight tooth and nail to keep what they have. Which, of course, is why Intro to Firearms is a First Year course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

As for Basic Services, yes, that's a major issue. They have to be gotten somehow from the Barrens, and that one, I'm still working on trying to figure out.

[Nath]

Corporate Download page 21
The Corporate Court represents itself as the only authority by which extraterritorial corporations are bound. In practice, corps are still expected to respect national juridictions, pays taxes and otherwise act as good guests when inside national borders.

[Nath]

Corporate Download page 8-10
A megacorp is a giant multinational, with revenues in the illions of nuyen. Megacorps make up only a inty percentage of the world's corporations, but they control the vast majority of wealth, resources and market share. More importantly, megacorps benefit from corporate extraterritoriality, meaning they're considered the equivalent of a national entity in legal terms, entitled to their own laws, citizens, currencies, militaries and other tools of power.
[...]
The Corporate Court has designated a ranking system that divides multinational corporations into three categories : A, AA and AAA. [...] This rank determines whether the corp has extraterritoriality, and what powers it has on a global scale. [...]
A-Multinationals [...]
AA-Extraterritorial Megacorps [...]
AAA-Prime Megacorporate Status [...]

[CanRay]

So AA-Corps are Extraterritorial in countries that recognise it. And AAs and AAAs still pay taxes.

Thanks Nath!

PS: I still bet they cheat on their taxes.

[Zak]

when inside national borders.

So they will not pay taxes because they will not have any facilities making a profit within national borders. Just think IKEA and their charity scam.

[Fortune]

Thanks for the clarifications Nath. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Eh, Nath, you do know you just volunteered to be the Economics Teacher, eh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Speed Wraith]

I'm working under the assumption that the founders of these schools would purposefully scout out locations within a powerful gang's turf. A lesser gang would want to try and cause trouble or otherwise make a name for themselves from sheer inexperience, but an established gang (or criminal syndicate) might be willing to take in a little protection money or possibly free tuition for some of the youngest brats to look the other way or even provide security.

[CanRay]

That would work, SW! Train up the GutterBrats, so they can expand the gang into the big leagues!

[Pendaric]

I have a two part shadow school in my game. First off is a community run grass roots school room where parents teach their children in skill sets they themselve have. This is in Crimson Crush territory where the Crush get protection money and to send their kids to the safe communal font of knowledge. Most of the gear at the school is basic/improvised or stolen by 'hooding.
Parents take it in turns to mind the kids and improve their education. Some of the parents are runners teaching the kids the ropes.
Second part is a purely matrix based school for young deckers. The basics of electronics, computer use, programing, decking ect are done by volunteers and tutor soft agents. The higher end students are taught in small classes by a decker teacher till they get paired off with a mentor decker in typical master/student relationship. The whole deal is a large pyramid syndicate where the students pay for leasons by decking for pay data and the school fences for nuyen.

[Cthulhudreams]

I've only started playing with 4th ed so I've never read that.

Which begs the question: If your supposed to obey the law, wtf exactly is the point?

I presume we are all saying that means that they co-erce their citizens to pay tax to the nationality that owns the soil the facility is on too?

[CanRay]

Most likely the Megas just put it as "Deductions" on the person's paystub, and strongly suggest that no questions be asked.

Asking questions means you're not happy with your position at Super-Mega-Ultra-Corp.

Maybe being a Janitor will make you happy?

And "supposed" to obey the law is a lot different than "being legally obligated" to obey the law. You bring Mitsuhama in for unfair hiring practices for not hiring enough Metahumans, and they won't even bother showing up to court, as those laws don't apply to them, as they have their own legal system in place.

Anyhow, they have metahumans on staff. Trolls make great bullet shields. I mean front-line security guards.

[Cthulhudreams]

I guess I cannot reconcil the statement "In practice, corps are still expected to respect national jurisdictions, pays taxes and otherwise act as good guests when inside national borders." with waging a god damn undercover shadow war against each other on a sort of ongoing basis.

[CanRay]

Because it's, as you put it, "a god damn undercover shadow war".

The emphasis is on Undercover and Shadow. OK, the idea of going in shooting, coming out shooting, driving around town shooting...

That's NOT a good 'Run!

[Cthulhudreams]

So massively illegal actions that they just don;t find out about is not really 'acting as good citizen'

It's like saying that Mr Fritzl was a good citizen until say, two weeks ago. Or that Al Capone was a good guy until he was actually convicted of tax fraud.

Anyway, while specific jobs are undercover, they actually make movies about the shadowrunning business, so thats like saying that the NSA is 'undercover' Pfft. We all know what Fort Meade is *for* and the general gist of what they are doing just not specific programs - until they get reported in the media anyway.

so everyone knows that Ares sends runners over to MCT on a weekly basis, and even probably have evidence for some of it, if you extend the modern analogy. And don;t say the media wouldn't report it, because you can bet that horizon would love to piss in Ares' cheerios.

Either way, now I'm extremely confused about how SR is supposed to work.

[DocTaotsu]

I'm not sure that national governments actually give a shit that Ares is raiding MCT facilities on a regular basis and I don't think that MCT ever goes over to a national government stomping it's feet and screaming "But Ares isn't playing fair!". To do so would mean that megas can't handle their own shit and that they need strong national governments to regulate them. A stance that would all but undermine the whole point of being a mega in the first place.

It's not like extraterritorial facilities actually use "public" services like police coverage or fire departments (unless explicitly contracted that way). If a Renraku building mysteriously catches on fire in the middle of the night, Seattle FD is scrambled not to put it out but to make sure it doesn't spread (unless of course Renraku wants to admit that it needs help and pay Seattle FD appropriately for working "outside their jurisdiction").

I also wouldn't assume that the individual corps wageslaves actually pay taxes to the nation they reside in. The corps pays taxes (read:rent) to the nation it exists on. The nation takes what it can get because if they tell the corps to take a hike the corps will laugh in their face, leave, and giggle as the nations economy collapses. At the same time a corps that doesn't have holdings anywhere can't actually sell anything so they have to make nice with national governments to conduct business within national borders. It's a delicate balance of power that rests upon the shoulders of mutually assured financial destruction.

[Cthulhudreams]

But didn't we just have a big round about arguement and conclude that most corp facilities are not extra territorial? Thus when you set fire to the overwhelming majority of Renraku building the Fire Department does actually have to help it out?

And when joe security guard gets shot, the NYPD (ie outsourced security contractors) have to start a homocide investigation? It would be illegal for MCT to conceal the death, so they would have to report it to the police? Does that make MCT shit a brick when dudes from an Ares' subsidiary start crawling all over the place?

Doesn't the government care about the multiple homocides that occur in the shadowruns that don;t go according to plan?

[DocTaotsu]

I missed that argument. I've always assumed that pretty much every facility belongs to the corporation that pays for it. Not really much of a point of being a mega if you don't take advantage of your extraterritoriality. If it's just an office somewhere I'm sure they contract for fire and police, but if it's a facility of any size and importance they won't want to rely upon people who don't belong to them. But that's my opinion.

NYPD is a bad example because New York is a whole bag of crazy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Lone Star doesn't have to give a shit if Joe the MCT security guy buys it because Joe has a SIN that clearly says "Property of MCT" written all over it. MCT can file paperwork with Lone Star if they so choose and Lone Star might turn over a runner if MCT has provided them with a description. For the reasons you state MCT might not contact them at all if only to preserve their secrecy.

But no, the government doesn't give a goddamn about multiple homicides if they don't involve their own citizens. Now kill a bunch of UCAS citizens during your run gone awry and now the UCAS FBI will be intensely interested in what you do for a living.

For that matter I don't know if UCAS has to investigate if a mega citizen drops dead on the street. I mean they should but... that's an awful lot of money to spend on people who don't directly pay taxes. (I hold to the belief that the corps, not the corps citizens, have to pay taxes)

[Cthulhudreams]

I think you'll find that if a bunch of german tourists got gunned down in australia today, despite not being direct tax payers the Australia government would be very, very, very interested in whoever did it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway so what we need to know is:

* How much of a megacorps property is extra territorial? Is the stuffer shack extra territorial or not?
* Do mega corps citizens pay income taxes to the nation they reside within?

Those two questions could do with an answer.

[DocTaotsu]

Well there are reasons for a nation to care about a corporate citizen dropping dead. I just don't think there may be a legal obligation outside of whatever treaties they may have with the corps in question. I mean generally speaking it sounds like you shoot up a MCT employ in Downtown Seattle and MCT and Lone Star are going to be all over you.

I don't know what the canon answer to either of your questions is. Stuffers Shack probably isn't because it's not worth the paperwork (thus is pays all the normal fees and taxes) but I'd imagine corporate housing, research, and infrastructure (Matrix backbones and what not) are all extra territorial. Those are the sorts of places you'd want to keep off limits except to your own bought and paid for security.

I have no idea on the second question. Probably not? If they live in a corporate enclave and work in a corporate office, they don't really use national resources so I have no idea what grounds they could be charged taxes. They probably pay taxes to papa corps who in turn makes nice fat deposits in Uncle UCAS's treasury though.