What Book do you want to have?, The books that may never be, and why Catalyst should indulge us. Options

[Method]

martaindv: So the devs should go back and redo books because some people don't like them? That doesn't seem like a very good way to stay in business. I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but out curiosity what didn't you like about Loose Alliances? Or rather, what were you expecting it to be?

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I am a little curious why so many people would want a rewrite of Shadowbeat? I have a copy and I can't remember the last time I felt the need to actually read it. The cover alone usually deters me from wanting to open it.

I don't mean to say that anyone's idea for their "dream book" is bad but, it seems to me like a lot of people want 4th edition updates of fluff books that are perfectly usable except for a few numbers here and there. Why redo things like Prime Runners, Loose Alliances, Threats 1 and 2, Target:Wastelands, the Sprawl Survival Guide or Shadowbeat when you could just buy an old or used copy and update the fluff to fit your campaign? Do you really need a book to tell you how things have developed?

BTW Shadowbeat is available on Amazon for only $8 US.

[Drogos]

Good God Man (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) That Cover is ATROCIOUS!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[FlakJacket]

A book the size of Shadows of Europe devoted entirely to the espionage game and spies. Done in a generally serious and realistic manner, but with a section on how to play it in a more Queen & Country style for players that want a bit more action.

That book is a piece of crap that was sold as something it was not.

If you don't mind my asking what did you consider that was mis-sold about it?

[CircuitBoyBlue]

Do you really need a book to tell you how things have developed?

Kind of. It just helps set the tone for the game. Which I could do on my own of course, but it would be nice if I knew I was on the same page as everyone else. Basically, the more "fluff" there is, the more common ground I'm going to have with other SR players when I run into them. I used to be able to say "Nerps." and people I'd never met before would know what I was talking about. That was nice. NERPS in general are nice.

[martindv]

A book the size of Shadows of Europe devoted entirely to the espionage game and spies. Done in a generally serious and realistic manner, but with a section on how to play it in a more Queen & Country style for players that want a bit more action.

HA!

Yeah. That'll happen. But this is definitely the thread for it. You're just begging for more Games of State nonsense.

If you don't mind my asking what did you consider that was mis-sold about it?

It's been so long since I tossed it aside that I can't quite say. But all I remember is that its description was of a book that I really wanted because it'd be useful. What I got was a useless book with nothing I wanted.

Method, my point is this: I want a book like Secret Societies of Barsaive. Not Loose Alliances. They are two distinctly different books in style, content, and utility.

I swear to God. I wanted to vomit, punch whoever wrote the Neo-Communist section in the throat, and then suffocate them in my puddle of vomit. It was a fucking travesty and whoever wrote it should be ashamed of themselves.

[Chrysalis]

I have a very simple request: I would like to see a novel about Shadowrun that is written by someone who has won a Nebula. The reason for demanding a Nebula writer is someone who is a real writer of science fiction and not a 16 year old boy with raging hormones and a keyboard.

-Chrysalis

[CanRay]

How about a 28-year old with raging hormones and a keyboard?

[Screamin Demon]

I think I aught to start a poll, for what its worth it would send a clear message of which book we as players are most itching for. Good marketing info at the very least.
Lemme see, we got:

Fortress
Rigger 4
Critters
Playelf/troll
Comprehensive Historical Atlas

I am leaving Shadows of Latin America out because apparently it is already in the making. I forget anything?

[Stahlseele]

Book of Stuff that did not make it into outher books, for whatever reasons . .

[Fortune]

Fortress

Is in all likelihood not going to be made in the format as originally described.

Rigger 4

It has already been announced that there will not be a Rigger 4.

Critters

Running Wild is already scheduled, and may already be in (pre-)production.

Playelf/troll

Um ... yeah.

Comprehensive Historical Atlas

Something akin to this was put out in German (Die 6 Wold?), but it was somehow decided that an English release was not warranted.

I am leaving Shadows of Latin America out because apparently it is already in the making.

It was 'made' years ago, even before the switch to 4th edition. As such, it is not likely to see the light of day in that format. The information is probably being cannibalized for other location books and the upcoming Ghost Cartels.

[Screamin Demon]

Well damn. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If only I'd checked this thread before I went and made the poll. I feel nice and silly now, don't I?

[ravensmuse]

Yeah, I pulled up Die .6 Der Welt in an earlier post. Even found a copy of it on German Amazon!

But alas, no one follows my carefully hidden links.

***

I want a 4e Shadowbeat because it was a wealth of information on the culture of the Sixth World...in the '50s. That's twenty years ago game time. A lot has changed since. It was a good fluffy book that gave us trid channels, Urban Brawl teams, the music industry...and gave rules and guidelines on how to do non-standard Shadowrun games. It was an interesting snapshot of 2050, basically.

Why not a good snapshot of the world of 2070? There's the world info in the beginning of the BBB, but it could be expanded while giving guidelines on different kinds of games as well.

But I realize that it's probably never going to be in the works, and I am in the process of trying to convert around some of those pop star / investigative reporter rules (when I'm not killing myself trying to write a book and other roleplaying pursuits) - it's just a wish (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well if we're going to shoot for the moon then, how about a revised Lone Star book? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Chrysalis]

How about a 28-year old with raging hormones and a keyboard?

Do you write yourself and leather clad supemodel look alike elves into your stories so that they can save the world and "fall in love"?

-Chrysalis

[Fortune]

Doesn't everyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DocTaotsu]

I would if that was part of my p-fix BTL chip and I was actually a shapeshifter being used as a mobile food source by a group of ghouls.

Alright I totally stole that from Hyz.

But were they really that bad? Were they Gorean fantasy bad?

[Chrysalis]

Gorean fantasy at least had men without shirts.

[DocTaotsu]

Did these leather clad elf ninja's happen to fall in love with other similarly clad female elves?

I've noticed that as a theme over the years.

[Fuchs]

I gave up on the novels sometime after Dragonheart... did I miss a Mary Sue trend?

And I vote for a "dark and gritty underworld sourcebook" written by Chrysalis.

[CanRay]

Do you write yourself and leather clad supemodel look alike elves into your stories so that they can save the world and "fall in love"?

-Chrysalis

Well, the Elf was leather-clad, but he wasn't any supermodel. Although, he was buff enough for Mr. Olympia, but that's because of the Muscle Augmentation that screwed up his NASCAR career.

And I haven't written myself, no. *Points at sig for stories*

[Chrysalis]

I gave up on the novels sometime after Dragonheart... did I miss a Mary Sue trend?

And I vote for a "dark and gritty underworld sourcebook" written by Chrysalis.

If someone is willing to fund me I would be happy to work on a Shadowrun sourcebook. I used to write Edgerunner the Cyberpunk 2020 fanzine, a (self)published work, so I even have credit to my name. I currently do proofreading professionally from journal articles to doctoral discertations.

I have also walked on the dangerous side of life.

I will warn though that I can be a bit of a bastard behind the 'board. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Wesley Street]

I am a little curious why so many people would want a rewrite of Shadowbeat? I have a copy and I can't remember the last time I felt the need to actually read it. The cover alone usually deters me from wanting to open it.

I don't mean to say that anyone's idea for their "dream book" is bad but, it seems to me like a lot of people want 4th edition updates of fluff books that are perfectly usable except for a few numbers here and there. Why redo things like Prime Runners, Loose Alliances, Threats 1 and 2, Target:Wastelands, the Sprawl Survival Guide or Shadowbeat when you could just buy an old or used copy and update the fluff to fit your campaign? Do you really need a book to tell you how things have developed?

Did we need an Arsenal book when Catalyst could have simply given us an conversion table for Street Samurai Catalog, Rigger Black Book, Fields of Fire, etc. etc. etc.? No, but I'm glad they did as it took what was best of all those books and smushed it together in a convenient SR4 package. That's what I'd like of a Neo-Anarchists Guide to Real Life, Sprawl Survival Guide, and Shadowbeat mash-up. Also an update on the newer game concepts and how they affect the game world, like AR, and updated rules on custom cost-of-living, domestic drones, etc.

After all I can only fit so many books in my backpack when I go GM at a friend's house. I'd like them to be compact... and good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Speed Wraith]

I am a little curious why so many people would want a rewrite of Shadowbeat? I have a copy and I can't remember the last time I felt the need to actually read it. The cover alone usually deters me from wanting to open it.

Yeah, the cover is corny, but really, that was one of the coolest little books they put out. Popular culture, news and entertainment are important and I think Shadowbeat really is a showcase for just how much thought was put into those things. A lot has changed since it came out. For example, who could have predicted the rise of the blogosphere back then? Plus, I want to know who got new expansion teams and whether or not Baking With Aunt Sally is still on the air.

[Method]

Well fair enough then. I guess I just kind of assume that all that stuff is still there and run with it, but you guys do present some good reasoning.

To answer Wesley Street's question though:

Did we really need Arsenal? Yes. The gear lists are cool, but thats not the only thing in the book. It has some essential core rules that needed to be updated to the 4th Ed (advanced vehicle rules, weapon and vehicle mods, sensors, indirect fire, martial arts, hostile environments, etc). A lot of the value of those other books (NAGTEE, Shadowbeat, SSG, etc) is fluff that is not affected by the drastic change in game mechanics. When you make radical changes to the core game mechanics, rules DO require updating. Fluff no so much.

I should point out that many of the actual rules in those fluffy source books have worked their way into the core rules over the years (simsense recorders for example were introduced in Shadowbeat and can now be found in the BBB). Also, many of the weapons and armor in Arsenal are in fact updated from books like the Neo Anarchists Guide to Everything Else.

[Wesley Street]

essential core rules

That's debatable and depends on what kind of game you run. For me, up-to-date "fluff" and background material are equally as important as optional rules on combat and tricking out your ride. After Unwired and the Paracritter books are released what other Shadowrun-essential rules need expanding?

[Method]

Well, you're right. After Unwired and Running Wild we will have a complete up-to-date rules set. Which I think is great. In fact, as cool as Ghost Cartels and Feral Cities sound, I'd rather have Unwired and Running Wild before any more story arch or location books.

And to be clear, I don't mean to detract from anyones enjoyment of the game. Fluff is equally as important, no doubt about it. My point was more so that fluff is not dependent on game mechanics.