NPC's, Generated like PCs? Options

[JeffSz]

How often do you generate your NPC's using the character creation rules? Is it better to do so, consuming vast amounts of time in order to have a measure of that NPC's "power" as compared to PC's, or to just quickly toss together some stats that may or may not be balanced?

[WeaverMount]

The only NPC of mine that had BP involved in there creation are former PCs.

An NPC is a plot device that should do exactly what the GM wants it too. Another reason that I don't use BP/Karma for PCs is that they are a balance mechanic. But SR is such a rock paper scissors game. If you hit the party in a way that they are not covered, they are basically dead. 36BP spent on three 6/6 contacts and 80 BP spent charisma and social skills to work them could explode most any runner team on the planet. Just because this guy could be a 300BP build doesn't mean it's a fair fight.

[CollateralDynamo]

Honestly, I have never used the PC creation rules to make an NPC. There have been a few times where I've taken old PCs that I or someone else had made and threw them in as NPCs, but generally, I think "balance" is easy to attain. You see, in computer games you need to worry about a balance between computers and the player, but in SR and other PnP games, it is much more important to simply have a balance between players. If the players feel that they are all balanced with one another, then they are easily satisfied. If it turns out that I've made an NPC overly tough or overly easy, I tend to amend hims slightly on the fly, or have more support run in. The players never have to know what you fudge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[coolgrafix]

Is it better to do so, consuming vast amounts of time in order to have a measure of that NPC's "power" as compared to PC's, or to just quickly toss together some stats that may or may not be balanced?

***COUGH*** The latter. ***COUGH***

[JeffSz]

wellll that'll sure make things go faster. You don't use the PC gen rules to make "prime runner" style NPC's either?

[CanRay]

So far, I've only stated out one NPC for my campaign...

I should get on it.

[Fortune]

How often do you generate your NPC's using the character creation rules?

Never. I wing it, writing down the stats only if and/or when the NPC survives first contact. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sunnyside]

I'll rarely do it. And then it's only if I want to play around with making characters and seeing how they match up to the PCs or how well something actually works in play (i.e. Lets see how a melee adept with a huge dodge actually works out).

Otherwise I just stat them out for the numbers I need to care about for now.

And a piece of advice, don't worry about balance so much. This isn't dungeons and door kickers where you're supposed to lose 1/4 of your hit points/resources per encounter etc.

I find I enjoy variety a lot more and it keeps them on their toes. Sometimes throw weak oposition at them so they can show off how badass they are. Sometimes have them crapping their pants.

Also SR4 really lets you get away with a lot as a GM. Being able to roll piles of edge and especially being able to burn it will keep your players alive. Go ahead and put away the kid gloves.

[Fortune]

You don't use the PC gen rules to make "prime runner" style NPC's either?

Nope. Just give them what they should have, and they are good to go.

[Kyoto Kid]

....fully stated out NPCs? Letseee, from the RiS arc there was

Lady Grande
Giles
Lady Steele
Crazy Ivan
Nikoli
Rita Kovec
Nadia Kovec
Zymanski
Anatoli Berkoff
General Dimitri Rostov
Chicago Joe
Mikhail
Elena Kucek
Lili Palmer
Uncle Chen
Richard Desenovic
The "PreFab Four" (an opposing runner group)


Former PCs:
Leela Groznek
Margo Grande
Lana Lane
Miste
Gracie
Josie LeSarre

[Fortune]

'Fully Stated-out' is different than 'Built according to chargen rules' though. I have heaps of fully developed NPCs, but none of them are built according to PC character generation rules.

[kanislatrans]

I use a little of each. For my main fixer Naz I stated him with the CharGenerator and then fudged him abit(still ended up around 450BP) Mooks tend to be "find someone close in the book and move some numbers around. " major threats are stated but sometimes adjusted during combat to keep things flowing. What ever works . however, I love back ground stuff and usually have a bunch of wanabee PC's to use as NPC's laying around anyway. someday when I win the Powerball I'm gonna just sit home and make characters all day long. just cause I can. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[sunnyside]

I'm hearing a lot about "adusting on the fly". I might do that if I thought it was really critical to the story (or, very rarely, if I want to move things along faster).

Seriously make your runners sweat now and then. Make them roll that edge and drag someone back to base with a trauma patch on if that's how things shake down.

Part of the reason for this is keeping the players thinking.

Allow me to elaborate. As a player I know I sometimes get the feeling that a GM is the sort who adjusts things on the fly, and won't kill anybody unless they're stupid. The effect is a numbing of the brain. You have a confidence that you can get through whatever is thrown at you as long as you "stay on the rails".

Conversly players who know they could easily get boned if they don't stay ahead of the game and pay attention will pay more attention and be more involved.

[Screamin Demon]

I make templates like 'Human Submachine Gun Gang Leader', 'Dwarf Shotgun Bartender', or 'Sneaky Fucking Pikey'
Beyond that I can modify their stats to whatever situation. 'Human Submachine Gun Gang Leader' can become 'Red Samurai Strike Team Leader' with the addition of some prime cybernetics and a katana blade. 'Dwarf Shotgun Bartender' with a simrig and a little skill juggling becomes 'Dwarf Shotgun Riggermeister'.
You get the idea.

[Zak]

It really depends. Most of my NPCs get statted(sp?) on the fly. Important NPCs have nearly complete stats, but usually not according to PC rules as thats just not needed. The exeption are a handful of my NPCs are former PCs / discarded PC ideas.

@sunnyside: Adjusting on the fly goes both ways. For me it usually means statting(sp?) out mooks. Sometimes it means I notice I forgot something critical and add it/remove it. Making it easier or harder for the players is not really the reason for changing something.

[Fuchs]

I most often take standard NPCs or PCs out of the book, and adjust on the fly, when I need exact stats. Most of my NPCs do not need exact stats though.

[Speed Wraith]

I use the BP system for important NPCs but only as a guideline. Grunts, even high-PR grunts are simple to toss together and know what is appropriate, but for big-bads and important NPCs I at least pay lip service to the BP system, even if I don't watch my math perfectly.

[Wesley Street]

I don't use character generation rules to create an NPC. It takes too much time and isn't necessary when you know how NPCs are supposed to interact with PCs. And why would anyone care if Ork Ganger #4 has a 2(+1)-point skill in Artisan (Mouth Harp) unless it actually comes into play in the game?

Twang twing twang twang twong twang twang twing twang twang twong...

[Kyoto Kid]

'Fully Stated-out' is different than 'Built according to chargen rules' though. I have heaps of fully developed NPCs, but none of them are built according to PC character generation rules.

...actually I do first build a lot of them with the chargen rules. For example NPCs like the Pre Fab Four, Crazy, Ivan and Lili Palmer were built on the same BP scale (3rd ed) as the PC runner team. For the Important Prime level NPCs (such as the Kovec sisters, Uncle Chen, and Lady Grande) I added Karma to flesh things out. For the fomer PCs I applied whatever Karma they had when retired.

[Kyoto Kid]

'Fully Stated-out' is different than 'Built according to chargen rules' though. I have heaps of fully developed NPCs, but none of them are built according to PC character generation rules.

...actually I do first build a lot of them with the chargen rules. For example NPCs like the Pre Fab Four, Crazy, Ivan and Lili Palmer were built on the same BP scale (3rd ed) as the PC runner team. For the Important Prime level NPCs (such as the Kovec sisters, Uncle Chen, and Lady Grande) I added Karma to flesh things out. For the fomer PCs I applied whatever Karma they had when retired.

[Kyoto Kid]

'Fully Stated-out' is different than 'Built according to chargen rules' though. I have heaps of fully developed NPCs, but none of them are built according to PC character generation rules.

...actually I do first build a lot of them with the chargen rules. For example NPCs like the Pre Fab Four, Crazy, Ivan and Lili Palmer were built on the same BP scale (3rd ed) as the PC runner team. For the Important Prime level NPCs (such as the Kovec sisters, Uncle Chen, and Lady Grande) I added Karma to flesh things out. For the fomer PCs I applied whatever Karma they had when retired.