Curve the Bullet, new adept power Options

[BookWyrm]

I'm sorry, but this type of adept power just screams overbalance to me. If you're the shooter, you're better off using a gyroc like Gene Simmons used in the film Runaway.
But the person (in this case, Angelina Jolie's character) just may be using an adept power to deflect, or at least bend the firing-line of the bullet just enough so that she doesn't get hit.

My impression of the scene is; the shooter literally whips the weapon from behind himself, supposedly adding the momentum of the drawing arc to the bullet in order to make the projectile go around any & all interveining solids (the aformentioned Ms. Jolie & the slab of meat behind her) to hit the target.

Oh smegging smeggity smegger smeg NO. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif)

I'm waiting for the MythBusters Special on this one.

[hobgoblin]

from what i understand the movie is based on some dc comics creation or other...

[Aaron]

All except for the totally inane Distance Strike.

True, but the strike in question still originates from the adept.

And Distance Strike is more useful than you might imagine. For one thing, it removes the Unarmed (or weapon skill or Dodge) from the defender's dice pool, which makes its usefulness increase proportionally with the target's melee skill.

[Kyoto Kid]

... got me thinking about a more cyber-punk version. What about a mortar/gyrojet weapon with a crazy complex fire control system that could pre-program a flight path into the rocket as it left the barrel. The turning radius would still be pretty large, but even pulling a U-turn over 3 city blocks to hit a target from an angle you aren't at would be crazy useful.

..already used this. Experimental KA-9X sniper system featured in my RiS campaign.

[Fortune]

True, but the strike in question still originates from the adept.

In a similar manner to Spells. That is not necessarily the definition of internalized magic though.

And Distance Strike is more useful than you might imagine. For one thing, it removes the Unarmed (or weapon skill or Dodge) from the defender's dice pool, which makes its usefulness increase proportionally with the target's melee skill.

I wasn't in any way arguing uselessness. If anything, Distance Strike is too useful, crossing the border of brokenness. It isn't the fault of SR4 though, as the Power has always been broken in every edition.

[Aaron]

In a similar manner to Spells. That is not necessarily the definition of internalized magic though.

I disagree. The punch still originates from the adept. The adept has to swing; the power is (at least by my reading) generated by the adept, not from mana. The target does not get any benefit from astral barriers or background counts.

[martindv]

This is a horrible idea, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

It does seem a bit derivative of Jumper, which had an excellent concept (at least superficially) but terrible execution. I hope it's good.

I just knew this would be about that stupid-ass trailer.


Wanted is loosely based on an Image/Top Cow (so, basically totally owned by the creator) miniseries by Mark Millar and J.G. Jones. (link, since this stupid UI doesn't do a halfway decent job of distinguishing them from normal text)

How loosely you ask? Well... They share the same title and the two main characters' names. Apparently the first act reflects some of the more "grounded" parts of the comic, when Wesley is training with his newfound abilities. But after that, it goes way the Hell off the rails.

Because the comic is about a world where the comic book supervillains won, and rule the world. And Wesley's father, The Killer ("I am the scariest super-fuck that ever lived"), is just that--a combination of Bullseye, Deadshot, and Ultimate Hawkeye. He is a supervillain, and the How of what he does is irrelevant. The movie is some bullshit nonsense about assassins working for capital "F" Fate. And that is a shame, because I want to see Morgan Freeman get shot in the throat with his own bullet Wesley deflects back at him with a knife.


See, the other thing is that even in the comic and the comics its based on, basic physics doesn't change. Bullets still fly in straight lines. The shooters are just scary fucking accurate.

[Malicant]

from what i understand the movie is based on some dc comics creation or other...

It is based on the comic Wanted. And that's more or less where the similarities end. Shame, the movie will suck big time compared to the comic.

[hobgoblin]

as they, more often then not, do these days...

[Larme]

I hear that Iron man is totally true to the comic while still being awesome for everyone else!

And V for Vendetta was a brilliant interpretation of a fairly dated sci fi comic.

[hobgoblin]

note the more often then not...

still, iron man is in a way a new breed of comic book based movie. from what i understand marvel studios (their movie and cartoon part) was directly responsible for production of it, and the upcoming hulk movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Studios

[CircuitBoyBlue]

And V for Vendetta was a brilliant interpretation of a fairly dated sci fi comic.

Agreed. I'm a huge Alan Moore fan, but I didn't dig the book. The movie, however, literally took my breath away. The group I went to see it with thought that this crazy person I was dating at the time and I were up to hi-jinks in the theater, because 10 minutes after the movie ended and everybody cleared out, we were still in the theater. But in truth, we were both just damn near catatonic, because a couple scenes in particular just blew us away. Even though we'd seen them in comic book form, the book just didn't have the "punch" of the movie.

[Fortune]

I disagree. The punch still originates from the adept. The adept has to swing; the power is (at least by my reading) generated by the adept, not from mana.

So, just what enables the force of the attack to cross the intervening distance, which could be more than 6 meters if Magic is not involved? If Magic is involved, then that Magic is operating outside of the Adept himself.

[WeaverMount]

So, just what enables the force of the attack to cross the intervening distance, which could be more than 6 meters if Magic is not involved? If Magic is involved, then that Magic is operating outside of the Adept himself.

If you take a very literal and reductionist view of distance strike, yes, it is absolutely a magical effect outside of the adept's body. In light of the tiny distance involved versus spell casting, it could also easy see this as extending the adept's aura.

The more damning powers are commanding voice and enthralling performance (I might have the names wrong). I don't really see how these could be anything but mind magic.

[Larme]

My interpretation would be that the Adept generates the kinetic force of the punch, and the magic then transmits it at a distance. The magic isn't hitting someone, the magic is rather allowing kinetic energy to travel through thin air. It's like mana encapsulates and carries the force, rather than the force being magic itself.

Regardless, there was never a rule that magical powers couldn't leave the person. Otherwise spells would be impossible. You could think of distance strike as just a limited form of the "clout" spell, if you wanted to, even. The rule with magic is that projectiles cannot be enchanted. Your hands, and weapons in your hands, can be infused with mana when you hold them, but once they leave you, they lose any magical presence. Missile mastery does not enchant projectiles, it enchants you, enabling you to throw projectiles much better. There isn't some arbitrary "outside self" rule, the rule is merely that projectiles can't be enchanted.

[WeaverMount]

It's like mana encapsulates and carries the force, rather than the force being magic itself.

... is magic outside the adept

Regardless, there was never a rule that magical powers couldn't leave the person.

This is supposed to be the big difference between magicians and adepts. Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule, but I'm pretty sure it is explicitly a thematic guild line.

[Malicant]

Adepts shooting Ki out of their palms is old school martial arts movie stuff. No problem there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fortune]

In light of the tiny distance involved versus spell casting, it could also easy see this as extending the adept's aura.

I dispute the idea that 1 meter/Magic is a 'tiny distance'.

Anyway, I wasn't intending to argue the merits (or lack thereof) of Distance Strike. I merely mentioned it in response to a post about the supposedly internalized magic of Adepts, which has indeed been a factor of Shadowrun's magic system across the editions.

[WeaverMount]

Well yes tiny is relative, but feel pretty justified in using it to compare several meters (6 + Grade max)to several kilometers LOS can afford(~=8km if you are 5 feet above sea level). And I was actually bring up the inward focus of adept magic, and offering a way to keep distance strike in line with that.

[Larme]

... is magic outside the adept

...which is what I said. There's no rule against magic going outside the adept. The only hard rule regarding projectiles has always been that you can't enchant them.

[Aaron]

So, just what enables the force of the attack to cross the intervening distance, which could be more than 6 meters if Magic is not involved? If Magic is involved, then that Magic is operating outside of the Adept himself.

Again, if that was the case, then the Distance Strike would mention something about being affected by astral barriers. Seems not to, though.

[Fortune]

There's no rule against magic going outside the adept. The only hard rule regarding projectiles has always been that you can't enchant them.

I don't believe anyone said there was a 'rule'. What has been said is that, since the very beginning, the main philosophy of the adept in Shadowrun has been an internalized use of magic, as opposed to a magician's outward bent. This has been stated overtly and explicitly over the editions, but unfortunately I cannot provide appropriate quotes from the older books at the moment.

As far as the relative distance argument ... I do not think 20+ feet is in any way a small or tiny or minute distance for a supposedly non-magical punch to cover.

It bothers me enough that Distance Strike doesn't exist in my games, and when I play an Adept in those games where it does, I refuse to take the Power for my characters.

[Larme]

I don't believe anyone said there was a 'rule'.

I was just pointing that out because everyone seemed to be beating up on a straw man, which apparently did not belong to anyone. Everyone was like "yuh huh it goes outside the adept," and I was just saying "...and?" It doesn't matter whether the magic goes outside the adept so I can't figure out why we're talking about it in the first place.

[Oracle]

hell if i recall the name, but i bumped into it on some show that was investigating claims of paranormal abilities.

the master and apprentice was located in different buildings, hooked up to eeg and similar. the master would then perform a attack, and the apprentice would react as if hit by said attack.

The name of the "martial art" is Kiai, and it is mentioned in the martial arts section of Arsenal. There are some freaky demonstrations of this "art" on YouTube (which is on the list of banned sites on my workplace, so i can't provide any links). My favourite demonstration is the one where the old Kiai master is foolish enough to let himself talk into a fight against a MMA fighter and is brutally destroyed. Another piece of mumbojumbo disproven.

As a sidenote: Before seing the entry in Arsenal and these videos, I always thought the kiai was the battlecry-style shout, employed in many japanese martial arts, which is used to increase muscle tensions to protect parts of the body and to up the force of an attack. A did not know that some people claim true "magical" powers to go along with this.

[Larme]

It's just more evidence that there's no such thing as an ultimate fighting style. If there was, everyone would learn it. Being a great fighter is about being strong, fast, tough, and skilled. Skilled in what doesn't matter, as long as it's effective. Bruce Li wasn't great because he knew any particular style, he was great because he was the strongest and the fastest and the toughest. That's why he ended up throwing all the styles out the window and designing his own.