Looting, suggestions? Options

[Method]

I've actually never had a problem with looting screwing up a game. Of course I've never had players get into organ legging or stealing Americars...

I've never had looting really derail a game, but as a GM I find it a little anticlimactic and metagamey when players who just finished a fire fight are like "cool... what do we get?" I want them to image the breathless pause, the sweaty palms, the adrenaline-fueled shakes... the reaction their character should have after a near death experience. I want them to think about the implications or how the fight advances the plot or where they can run to next. An immediate switch to looting mode just takes the realism out of it for me.

[DocTaotsu]

Yeah, that's a good point. I've only had a few cases where players actually had time to sit around picking through fresh corpses looking for cool swag. Usually I'll mention that their drawing a crowd, sirens wail distantly, or the gangers 30 friends finally showed up.

I also try to avoid just giving them an itemized list (although I might do that in big fire fights) usually my players give me an idea what they're looking for "Okay I grab his weapon, his grenades, and his commlink." Not "I strip him naked and pawn his shoes"

[Damatory]

There are some looting scenarios I hadn't even imagined in here, those are hilarious. I hadn't even thought about snatching cybergear, that would make for some funny faces in my group.

GM: "He's got Titanium bone lacing."

Biff: "SWEET! Toss him in the furnace, we'll smelt him into bars!"

That would at least be a good way to hide the body. lol

[Shiloh]

GM: "He's got Titanium bone lacing."

Biff: "SWEET! Toss him in the furnace, we'll smelt him into bars!"

That would at least be a good way to hide the body. lol

Most furnaces would just change the colour of the titanium... But you could fish the bits out of the ash, use drain cleaner to etch out any bone char that remained and rearticulate the remaining lace into a really cool modern art sculpture...

[CanRay]

Most furnaces would just change the colour of the titanium... But you could fish the bits out of the ash, use drain cleaner to etch out any bone char that remained and rearticulate the remaining lace into a really cool modern art sculpture...

...

OK, sick, twisted ideas are forming. And I thought the one guy that was taking "Taxidermy" as a hobby skill was bad. Making artwork out of Titanium Bonelaced Bones would be... Weird.

And probably sell in the market, too!

[hyzmarca]

Take the bones out before putting them in the furnace. The rest of his flesh is worth more than the titanium would be.

[vladski]

There are some looting scenarios I hadn't even imagined in here, those are hilarious. I hadn't even thought about snatching cybergear, that would make for some funny faces in my group.

GM: "He's got Titanium bone lacing."

Biff: "SWEET! Toss him in the furnace, we'll smelt him into bars!"

That would at least be a good way to hide the body. lol

This is a great solution! And the really sweet part is it doesn't have to be a "body" before the furnace chucking. You can use the furnace as a prop in your extended interrogation skill test. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Vlad

[PBTHHHHT]

This is a great solution! And the really sweet part is it doesn't have to be a "body" before the furnace chucking. You can use the furnace as a prop in your extended interrogation skill test. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Vlad

Could also use tubs of lye but I guess it's not as intimidating as a furnace.

[CanRay]

Pig farm full of New Boars.

[DocTaotsu]

I think lye is less intimidating up until the point where their buddies face starts falling off.

[kanislatrans]

I just let my crew walk away with four White Knights from a record company media storage facility in the middle of no where. the job was a "Favor" job and happened to be in the area they were in anyway. so the LMG's were pretty much the paycheck on that run. ( well, that and the joy of watching 18 kilos of rating 15 mil-spec plastic explosives make a reeeaaalllly big hole in the ground).

In a related story , Metal Attic Media stock took a plunge today after their main Masters vault exploded . Company spokeswoman, Elissa Mornraven called the loss "catastrophic" but assures the stockholders that backups for most of the data is being gathered from various other facilities. " We would never be silly enough to put all of our eggs in one basket." She said at a press conference earlier this evening. " As a subsidy of Ares, we pride ourselves in keeping our house in order. This setback ,although not anticipated, will be handled with the efficiency and professionalism that has brought so many talented artists to our labels."

Looting is a fact of life in my games. just don't be stupid and you just may pick up some extra (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)
on a side note, they were smart, moved the guns quickly,only getting 25% value. By the time anyone even discovered the LMG's were missing they were on their way to Denver.

sorry for the crappy typing. keyboard d dying. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[vladski]

Pig farm full of New Boars.

Ahhh, a quick trip to see Wu.


Vlad

[PBTHHHHT]

I think lye is less intimidating up until the point where their buddies face starts falling off.

The part I'll love is when it turns out that it's the buddy (who's face is falling off) who had the vital info. Imagine the 'doh' expression on the player's faces.

[ornot]

It can be disturbing when the runners are contemplating rolling Joe Corp, cracking open his skull for his cranial commlink and selling his meat to the neighbourhood ghouls to pay for beer and soypizza on poker night. But I guess they are usually paid to shoot people in the face, so an element of antisocial or outright psychotic behaviour is to be expected. When they decide that mugging and stealing cars is an easier method of making money than running it's a problem.

I have had the occasional problem with runners wanting to score teh epix lewtz. As has been suggested, I try to control this with personalised gear, tracking RFIDs, and fencing difficulties. Usually I can keep them moving too fast to stop them stripping bodies of all value, because I don't much like all the book-keeping.

One thing I've never really understood is quite what the point of organlegging is. In a world where you can grow a clonal organ, or replace it entirely with 'ware, where is the demand for Billy's lungs? The surgery is exactly as tricky to carry out, and you have all the added difficulties and expense of anti-rejection drugs. The highest price a second hand piece of meat could possibly reach is going to have to be far lower than the equivalent piece of 'ware, so where is the profit? Sure you might have a lot more widespread organ failure due to pollution, and hence a market of economy, but unless the cost of the drugs and the surgeon is negligible next to the cost of the organ, why would anyone cut corners for a piece of uncertain provenance and reliability?

[Zak]

Used bioware and cyberware is where the money is at. As for normal organs, some people can not afford cloning as it used to be quite expensive. And not everyone has access to cloning technology. And then, sometimes you don't have time to clone an organ.
Yes, those markets are shrinking.
And then there is the value of raw meat. Who told you those RatBurgers are really rats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[CanRay]

Because cloning tanks are expensive, not just to own, but operate. And not every back-alley doctor is going to have access to one. But he's got access to the drugs (Or cheaper, street alternatives), and skills that he can no longer use officially for whatever reason (I like the description in the Chemistry Chapter in Arsenal! It really portrays how some Street Docs are!).

As well, not everyone has time to wait for cloned replacements. It takes, what, a MONTH, maybe TWO to grow a lung or two? If you got a breath-ful of Nanite Rippers that tore your old set to shreds before your own security nanites got to them. You might have days, maybe only hours! Those spare parts look good then!

Finally, any operation is going to have you on immunosuppressant drugs, even if it's cloned tissues from your own body. The sutures alone would be attacked, and those need time to heal and dissolve before they get torn apart by the body's own defence mechanisms.

In essence, the people who use second-hand parts are the desperate ones, the ones who can't afford to go to the higher-end Shadow Clinics that have cloning facilities, or the ones that can't afford to wait for replacements for health reasons.

And there's more than enough of those to go around to keep the second-hand market going.

Finally, as inexpensive as synthetic blood and vat-grown O-Neg is, it's still cheaper to bleed some bugger dry, run it a few times through a toxin filter, and use that. Toxin Filtering is optional depending on which clinic you go to, so hope you don't pick up a new habit if you go to the wrong one!

[ornot]

Used bioware and cyberware is where the money is at. As for normal organs, some people can not afford cloning as it used to be quite expensive. And not everyone has access to cloning technology.
Yes, those markets are shrinking.
And then there is the value of raw meat. Who told you those RatBurgers are really rats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Perhaps cloning is expensive, but there are a number of cyber organs or equivalents listed in the books, and fluff in augmentation seems to suggest that cyber organs are quite prevalent. Are the costs of anti-rejection drugs and surgery so low that the limiting factor is the cost of manufacturing 'ware?

And selling people as food isn't going to be all that profitable. Wholesale meat can't be all that expensive. I'm pretty sure that persuading the police to turn a blind eye to your long pig abattoir is going to cut into profitability a hell of a lot.

ETA: I'm not saying that there wouldn't be any demand for stolen organs, but I'm having a hard time mentally justifying the scale of things so far described.

[CanRay]

And selling people as food isn't going to be all that profitable. Wholesale meat can't be all that expensive. I'm pretty sure that persuading the police to turn a blind eye to your long pig abattoir is going to cut into profitability a hell of a lot.

Really?

Explain why everything's made of Soy then?

Oh, wait, I remember that someone already did, but not in this forum. And it's a good explaination.

[ornot]

Really?

Explain why everything's made of Soy then?

Oh, wait, I remember that someone already did, but not in this forum. And it's a good explaination.

My point is not that meat is cheap, just that I don't see the costs of running an illicit abattoir to be low enough, and demand for meat of uncertain origin high enough to make harvesting people for food profitable.

Hehe. I do like that link too.

[CanRay]

Hey, if all you had to eat was Synth-Foods... How much would you pay for a REAL Hamburger?

And, honestly, you grew up eating Synth-Foods, do you even know what Beef tastes like? You know what "Authentic Farm-Like Beef Flavouring" tastes like, but we all know that it's not like the real thing.

...

Maybe I should switch that to Pork.

[ornot]

Hey, if all you had to eat was Synth-Foods... How much would you pay for a REAL Hamburger?

And, honestly, you grew up eating Synth-Foods, do you even know what Beef tastes like? You know what "Authentic Farm-Like Beef Flavouring" tastes like, but we all know that it's not like the real thing.

...

Maybe I should switch that to Pork.

Me personally? I've been a vegetarian since I was 5 because I genuinely don't like meat, so not a great deal. I don't even like meat textured soy, regardless how close or otherwise it is to real meat. I have eaten meat from time to time, but I still don't like it.

I guess our biggest contention is how much you could potentially sell meat produced from people for on a wholesale basis. In this case you can't really go for volume, since it would make it easier for law enforcement to catch/stop you, and the easier it would be for them to shut you down for some good PR, the larger the bung needed to make it worth their while. You also need to keep the operation hidden from snoopy news types, since they would bring public pressure on law enforcement to shut you down, regardless of your bribe. If you're running a low volume high cost business, you are still trying to undercut regular animal farms, or supplying to folk that want to eat metahumans.

[CanRay]

And that's why we have Z-Zones! Where cops and newsies never go.

And look at that, they're filled with people that noone cares about, too! The SINless! Walking meat on the hoof.

Am I saying wide spread, no. Ghouls mostly, yes.

But it certainly beats filler to make the real farm meat last longer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Zak]

That's not how I see them working tbh. I don't think they (Tamanous) actually retail the meat. They probably dump it to ghouls working for them as part of their payment. But I can see some surplus being sold as cheap meat.

Edit: This was a reply to ornot, not CanRay.

[ornot]

Again, I can understand some small market for organ legging, and 'long-pig', and all the rest. It's the apparent scale that I find hard to explain, and without the scale there's no discernible profit margin, since the price per unit of an organ must be lower than the cost of a cyber replacement, else noone would buy them in preference.

[Ed_209a]

When my group has a run somewhere like a lab or somewhere equally technical, my sammy downloads a bunch of sales catalogs, and lets his 'link digest them into a database that links model numbers to sales values. He then looks at an item, and whirr-click, he knows if it is worth taking.

That said, we don't take the time to strip much from sites. We only skim the cream off the top.