Do ranged defense modifiers appy to resisting Indirect Combat Spells? Options

[Cain]

Oh, yeah, forgot. Electrical effects completely ignore metallic armor (P154). So, in the case of vehicles, you could make the argument that their armor is metallic, and therefore doesn't count against the primary attack.

[Ranger]

True about the half armor from most elemental spells. I forgot about that when seeing if no damage would be taken, although I remembered it when rolling the damage resistance tests. Doh! So, yes, a Force 3 Acid Stream is viable.

As for the electrical element, such spells would do no damage to a vehicle or drone no matter what, because electrical spells do stun damage, and vehicles and drones do not take stun damage. The vehicle or drone potentially be disabled for a short time, though.

[Cain]

...because electrical spells do stun damage,...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) Say WHAT?

Lightning Bolt and Ball Lightning do Physical damage. Look at the spell description: unless the spell/elemental effect says so specifically, it always deals Physical damage. The reason why the book specifically mentions that vehicles don't take Stun is because every single other electrical effect is stun-only.

[Ranger]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) Say WHAT?

Lightning Bolt and Ball Lightning do Physical damage. Look at the spell description: unless the spell/elemental effect says so specifically, it always deals Physical damage. The reason why the book specifically mentions that vehicles don't take Stun is because every single other electrical effect is stun-only.

Okay, that's something I overlooked. Hmm. All this time I was thinking that the Lightning Bolt spell only did Stun damage because, as you said, all other eletrical damage is Stun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Muspellsheimr]

That is something that needs an official statement, but I am inclined to think the Physical damage of the lightning spells is a typo, as the description states "that cause Electricity Damage (p. 154)", and on p.154 "Electrical damage is treated as Stun damage".

[Ranger]

That is something that needs an official statement, but I am inclined to think the Physical damage of the lightning spells is a typo, as the description states "that cause Electricity Damage (p. 154)", and on p.154 "Electrical damage is treated as Stun damage".

I'm inclined to agree with you. Seems odd to me that the lightning spells would be the only exception to this rule.

[Mordinvan]

I think its just fine, you put 2,000,000 volts at 10 amps through someone and you will inflict physical damage. Heck you'll engrave it on their very soul with that many joules.

[Muspellsheimr]

I think I know why it is listed in the spell as Physical damage. Street Magic spell creation rules list Elemental effects requiring a Physical spell that does Physical damage. As such, it is not a typo, but I still believe the rules for the Element used override the spells damage code unless stated specifically in the text (ie. this spell does physical damage, but otherwise follows the rules for Electricity damage).

I think its just fine, you put 2,000,000 volts at 10 amps through someone and you will inflict physical damage. Heck you'll engrave it on their very soul with that many joules.

That is not because of the electricity causing Physical damage, that is because of it causing Overflow damage after it fills the stun track.

[Cain]

Not really. Lightning spells have always dealt physical damage. If that doesn't convince you, then look at Energy Aura: adding an electrical aura doesn't convert the damage to stun.

[Muspellsheimr]

[Element] Aura (Environmental)
Attacks are treated as Cold, Electricity, Fire, or some other elemental damage (see p. 155, SR4, and p. 164-165 of this book)

So yes, Elemental Aura does indeed convert your damage to Stun if you are using Electricity.

The Elemental Attack Adept power however does not convert it to Stun because it specifically states "enhances" with an elemental effect, not "treated as".

[Cain]

So yes, Elemental Aura does indeed convert your damage to Stun if you are using Electricity.

The Elemental Attack Adept power however does not convert it to Stun because it specifically states "enhances" with an elemental effect, not "treated as".

First of all, it still doesn't say that. If you're attacking with a sword and Elemental Aura, you're still hitting with a sword.

Second, I said Energy Aura, not Elemental Aura:

A critter with Energy Aura continuously radiates an
aura of damaging or negative energy, be it flame, intense cold,
electricity, or something similar. Melee attacks made by the
critter gain an additional +4 modifier to the Damage Value.

Nothing here about it being converted to stun if electrical.

And since you want clarification from Street Magic, check the Spell Table in the back of the book. It clearly lists the damage for Ball Lightning and Lightning Bolt as Physical.

[Ranger]

First of all, it still doesn't say that. If you're attacking with a sword and Elemental Aura, you're still hitting with a sword.
...
Nothing here about it being converted to stun if electrical.
...

The description goes on to say, "Additionally, treat the damage as Cold, Electricity, or Fire damage (see p. 155), as appropriate to the aura."

Treating the damage as electricity implies that you follow all of the rules for electricity damage, which includes the damage being stun damage.

Regardless, the only critters that have this power are spirits, and they don't use weapons as far as I know. It's all about them swinging their appendages that are comprised of their appropriate element.

[Muspellsheimr]

Misread 'Energy Aura'. None the less, I am correct in that Electricity Aura [spell] causes your attacks to deal Stun damage. It clearly states that damage is treated as the element used, and Electricity clearly states it does stun damage.

I have already stated my reasoning on why Lightning spells do Stun damage, and will not bother repeating it. As for the charts in the back of Street Magic, in this case are correct. However, the policy of Wizards of the Coast is all actual text overrides reference charts if there is a conflict, and although I have not seen anything from Catalyst stating the same, I see no practical reason for it to be different, as such makes far more sense than reference's overriding rules text.

[Cain]

Dear gods....

Okay, if you want to get technical, here's the thing. Lightning Bolt is specifically exempted from that clause, as stated on the first paragraph of the Electricity Damage section. Note that spells cause "similar" effects, not identical ones. That, plus the fact that every printing of the book, every errata, and every copy of Street Magic all clearly and loudly state that the spells do physical damage, means that the spells do physical damage.

Additionally, this is Shadowrun, not D&D. Shadowrun doesn't give you cancer, for starters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Muspellsheimr]

Additionally, this is Shadowrun, not D&D. Shadowrun doesn't give you cancer, for starters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Neither does D&D. It gives you brain tumors.

[RunnerPaul]

Neither does D&D. It gives you brain tumors.

Yes. It's the d20's that give you cancer.