Grenades at your feet, (or, what happens if an armored troll uses grenades on himself) Options

[Samba]

In the campaign i'm currently running, one of the characters is playing a troll based entirely around the idea of rolling as many dice to resist damage as possible.

During last nights session, whilst dealing with a next of ghouls, the troll decides to put into action a plan he had been considering for a while. The ghouls were swarming him, trying to take down the single largest threat quickly (cos he is) and he dropped a grenade pretty much at his feet (well, he tried to land it a meter or so away but scatter dropped it closer)

The blast went off, most of the ghouls died, he came out of it with 1 box of stun damage.

He is currently rolling about 30 dice in a damage test (using an armoured jacket, riot shield, various bits of cyberware/bioware and a maxed out body)

I'm really starting to struggle to find things to challenge him physically, whilst also not turning the other party members into red mist, and also without seeming like i'm specifically trying to take him down (i'm not, i just want him to feel challenged when it comes to combat)

Any ideas?

[Drogos]

Multiple enemies with full autofire weapons. He can't always roll 30 successes for damage resistance.

[Nightwalker450]

Mages with Mental spells. Make him resist with his mind.
That and electrical damage, only uses half armor.
Or run a mission he's required to swim during. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Then there's always the option of a speeding bull-dog step van running him over.

[Ranger]

Mages with Mental spells. Make him resist with his mind.

Along similar lines, Direct Combat mana spells, or even Direct Combat physical spells. In both cases, his armor is useless.

Have a subdual expert attack him. Armor doesn't help when wrestling.

[Stahlseele]

disregard the other options, have him do some leg-work . . people are probably not going to talk to the tank asking the wrong questions . . or he has to try and shadow someone . . you'd have to be pretty distracted not to notice the tank following you . . also, chem-tech . . only natural body and certain special cyber/bio help against that one . .

[CanRay]

Adept with a High-Powered Tranq Patch. Slap on the nose, Troll goes down.

[Emperor Tippy]

Adept with a High-Powered Tranq Patch. Slap on the nose, Troll goes down.

Always an excellent way to deal with enemies.

An assault rifle with Stick n Shock rounds works as well. -half for AP and 15s DV on a full, narrow burst.

[hobgoblin]

heh, SnS is the mundane equivalent of a mana based direct combat spell.

also, given how the rules work, the stun track will always be shorter then the physical track...

[Emperor Tippy]

heh, SnS is the mundane equivalent of a mana based direct combat spell.

also, given how the rules work, the stun track will always be shorter then the physical track...

Well unless someone has 1 body and 8 will. In which case I think the Stun track might win.

[hobgoblin]

Well unless someone has 1 body and 8 will. In which case I think the Stun track might win.

heh, not gonna happen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Emperor Tippy]

heh, not gonna happen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Prolly not. If Bone Density Augmentation actually augmented your body it might happen (augmented body of 5) as no ware I can think of augments Will. But BDA just does it for damage resistance tests.

[Moon-Hawk]

I'm really starting to struggle to find things to challenge him physically, whilst also not turning the other party members into red mist, and also without seeming like i'm specifically trying to take him down (i'm not, i just want him to feel challenged when it comes to combat)

Short answer: If the rest of his team dies, he still loses, so what's the problem?
Long answer: I think you may be creating a problem where there is none. He wanted to play a character who is nigh-impervious. It's his whole shtick. It's not your job to prove to him that his character sucks. There are a lot of ways he can be hurt, people have already suggested great ones, and they should darn well show up when appropriate, but you don't need to go out of your way to hurt him. He may not be in any personal danger in a particular fight, but his buddies aren't, and there's only so many people he can kill at once. The grenade things strains believability a bit, sure, but being impossibly tough is his whole character concept, I say let him have it. That can't exactly be his go-to tactic that he uses 90% of the time; most situations he'd blow his own friends to hell. So my question to you is: So he's invulnerable, is that really hurting the game, or does it just seem wrong?
Now if it's hurting the game because he acts like an asshat and does dumb stuff that endangers everyone because he won't be killed and screw everyone else, then that's absolutely a problem, but I'd say that's more of a problem with the player and his playstyle than the character.

Challenge this character in combat by creating threats for the team, challenging him in combat doesn't necessarily require putting a lot of boxes on one particular damage track.

That said, if you do really want to put damage on his track, there are a lot of good suggestions here already. I just wanted to explore the issue a bit and offer another perspective.

[CanRay]

Wait wait wait!

I forgot the ultimate issue with Trolls and their hatred of things built for a smaller people.

Weak. Flooring.

[Jaid]

Prolly not. If Bone Density Augmentation actually augmented your body it might happen (augmented body of 5) as no ware I can think of augments Will. But BDA just does it for damage resistance tests.

the braveheart genetic infusion can increase willpower. the adrenaline pump can increase willpower very briefly. the pain editor can increase willpower as long as it is active (but with drawbacks).

there are also a number of drugs that boost willpower.

[Kyoto Kid]

...Force 6 Stunbolt or Manabolt with edge thrown in. Troll's Willpower defends.

[DireRadiant]

Have him meet the troll pornomancer for some troll on troll action.

[ArkonC]

Mages with Mental spells. Make him resist with his mind.
That and electrical damage, only uses half armor.
Or run a mission he's required to swim during. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Then there's always the option of a speeding bull-dog step van running him over.

Let's not forget about Sound elemental effects, Stun damage that ignored armor is a tankytroll's kryptonite... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

disregard the other options, have him do some leg-work . . people are probably not going to talk to the tank asking the wrong questions . . or he has to try and shadow someone . . you'd have to be pretty distracted not to notice the tank following you . . also, chem-tech . . only natural body and certain special cyber/bio help against that one . .

If there's a dedicated face in the party (which I am in my group), that face wouldn't let the troll do the talking, it would be an insult to his honor...

Short answer: If the rest of his team dies, he still loses, so what's the problem?
Long answer: I think you may be creating a problem where there is none. He wanted to play a character who is nigh-impervious. It's his whole shtick. It's not your job to prove to him that his character sucks. There are a lot of ways he can be hurt, people have already suggested great ones, and they should darn well show up when appropriate, but you don't need to go out of your way to hurt him. He may not be in any personal danger in a particular fight, but his buddies aren't, and there's only so many people he can kill at once. The grenade things strains believability a bit, sure, but being impossibly tough is his whole character concept, I say let him have it. That can't exactly be his go-to tactic that he uses 90% of the time; most situations he'd blow his own friends to hell. So my question to you is: So he's invulnerable, is that really hurting the game, or does it just seem wrong?
Now if it's hurting the game because he acts like an asshat and does dumb stuff that endangers everyone because he won't be killed and screw everyone else, then that's absolutely a problem, but I'd say that's more of a problem with the player and his playstyle than the character.

Challenge this character in combat by creating threats for the team, challenging him in combat doesn't necessarily require putting a lot of boxes on one particular damage track.

That said, if you do really want to put damage on his track, there are a lot of good suggestions here already. I just wanted to explore the issue a bit and offer another perspective.

Good points, just because he survives doesn't mean he succeeded in his mission, our group has a good survival rate, so far, but ever since we finished the SRM's and started doing our GMs home made ones, our failure rate has gone up a lot...

[Emperor Tippy]

the braveheart genetic infusion can increase willpower.

Has all the negatives of genetic infusions.

the adrenaline pump can increase willpower very briefly.

Yeah, but when it wears off you can really crash (lost will power reduces your stun track and you take an additional 6 hits).

the pain editor can increase willpower as long as it is active (but with drawbacks).

True.

there are also a number of drugs that boost willpower.

Yes and there are also drugs that give +3 to all physical scores, +1 willpower, High Pain Tolerance 3, and +3 IP's. It just has that nasty 18s (unresisted) when it wears off. And the addiction thing.

[CanRay]

Bah! He's a Shadowrunner! You want to live forever?

[Blade]

Ok, here are a few things to keep in mind when dealing with such hyper-specialized characters:

A. Acceptance "Damn I'm good!":
The characters are really good at this, far above the best a unmoded/non awekened human can dream of. Yes, the tank troll can survive a direct hit from a rocket. It's hard to imagine, but that's the way it is.
Most of the time the players spent a whole lot of BPs to get this. They deserve it. Sometimes that's the character concept. And when you create your character so that he's able to survive a rocket/shoot a fly at 500m/charm anyone, you expect your character to do just that. You don't expect him to get killed every time/miss all your shots/be ignored.
When a combat specialist is faced with regular opposition, don't try to kill him at all costs. He's the best, and he'll most likely be able to take the opposition down, and to look cool doing it. The player wants his character to be able to do that, he payed for it and it's consistent with the world. Everybody wins.

B. Challenge "To win without risk is to triumph without glory":
Killing everyone everytime, surviving everything... It soon becomes boring. The character needs to be all he can be. He needs a challenge.
But that doesn't mean he must lose face and dignity. That means he has to give all he's got, and shine at his brightest. Thor-shotting the tank-troll to death isn't challenging him. A better challenge would be to have him have to get in the way of a rocket to prevent it from blowing up his team or the character he needs to protect, or hold the huge and heavy door to buy his team enough time to leave the place...
A good idea is to rely on something else than just the character's natural strength, or to force him to find the way to put it to use to win the challenge. It's not fun if all the troll tank has to do against the BFG is to roll body and hope for the best. It's better if he has to get in the way of a shot in a specific place, so that he'll be pushed towards some other place where he'll be able to...

C. Reaction "To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction":
If the opposition knows it'll face a tank-troll and know what to expect from him, they'll adapt, as far as they can. This could mean sending mages with mana spells or heavy artillery, if available. This could also mean surrendering or avoiding direct confrontation if they know they don't have anything powerful enough to take him down. This can be a good explanation for the challenge, and if done properly, will avoid making the player feel punished for having a character who's just too food.

To conclude, I'd say the better way to handle it would be something very classic:
1. Regular guys attack the troll who just stands there and doesn't even move.
2. Regular guys panic and run "It's a monster! He's too strong! We can't hurt him!"
3. Panicking guys are getting blown away (or stop in their tracks, awestruck): here comes the BFG!
4. Troll tank faces a real challenge. It's not easy, he can't rely on his high body alone (even if it helps, and is probably crucial to his survival) but if he succeeds, that's something he could brag about later!

[JoelHalpern]

It would seem that armor is also context dependxent. There are a lot of places / situations where one simply can not reasonably wear heavy armor. But combat can still occur in those contextsYours,
Joel Halpern

[Wounded Ronin]

You could have ninjas who call out special move names and make kanji flash on the screen before attacking. That tends to be effective against armor.

[Moon-Hawk]

Good points, just because he survives doesn't mean he succeeded in his mission, our group has a good survival rate, so far, but ever since we finished the SRM's and started doing our GMs home made ones, our failure rate has gone up a lot...

The last time the issue of indestructible machines of death, I think I said something to the effect of: "Being invulnerable doesn't help you succeed at runs, it just helps you live to fail another day." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Wounded Ronin]

The last time the issue of indestructible machines of death, I think I said something to the effect of: "Being invulnerable doesn't help you succeed at runs, it just helps you live to fail another day." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Preach, brother!

I agree that GMs should not be averse to pulling Operation Flashpoints. That is to say it should be possible to conclude a given scenario alive, but with failed objectives, and furthermore the failed objectives could be due to something other than grotesque player incompetence. For example, in Operation Flashpoint there was one mission where the player was part of a NATO infantry assault on a town held by Soviets. However, during the assault, a Soviet armor column rolls into to support the Soviet infantry and thus the player is basically forced to withdraw, and thus the scenario ends.

There are some other missions where it can go either way, but the engine supports either a victorious or failure debrief depending on how things went.

[hobgoblin]

Have him meet the troll pornomancer for some troll on troll action.

someone hand me the bleach, i need to get that image of my mind...