Combat Insertion Vehicle, A couple of questions Options

[Emperor Tippy]

I'm making a mil spec vehicle for combat insertions.

I've decided to go with the MiG-67 as the base vehicle, primarily because of the 18 body.
MiG-67 (LAV)
Handling: +2
Acel: 50/200
Speed: 800
Pilot: 1
Body: 18
Armor: 14
Sensor: 2
Cost: 950,000

Now for the questions:
1) LAV stands for Low Altitude Vehicle. What does that mean rules wise? VTOL? Runway needed? Maximum altitude?
2) When you add armor can you add on up to 20 points of armor or just bring the armor up to 20 points (in this case adding 6 points)?
3) How many people can the MiG hold?
4) Can you modify a laser weapon to be FA?
EDIT:Added 4th question.

[Jaid]

1) LAVs are T-birds. basically, you start with a brick, bolt a whole bunch of jump jets onto it, and then you install a control system =P you shouldn't need any sort of runway, though of course a runway being a fairly large clear area doesn't hurt... but really, any decent sized clear area with reasonably level ground should work ok.

2) technically, you can only go up to 20. you'd be better off putting in smart armor, or whatever it's called.

3) not very many, imo. they're more like a combat helicopter in concept than anything else, as i understand it.

[Emperor Tippy]

New question:
4) Can you modify a laser weapon to be FA?

[WearzManySkins]

I agree with Jaid but the TBirds done in SR3 and SR4 seem not to be able to carry much in passengers or in cargo but again they are supposed to be the premier border runners.

4. Yes you can make a Laser FA, just the power requirements can be a bit hard to supply when they are FA.

WMS

[Emperor Tippy]

I agree with Jaid but the TBirds done in SR3 and SR4 seem not to be able to carry much in passengers or in cargo but again they are supposed to be the premier border runners.

MiG was known for fighter aircraft, but they have since
moved into providing reliable and robust jet aircrat through a
co-production deal with Evo. They have recently entered the low-
altitude vehicle (LAV) market with a design that follows in that
tradition, though intended to be a transport rather than a front-
line combat aircraft. MiG’s open-door selling policy has made this
one of the fastest growing vehicles among t-birders.

Seeing as it says its supposed to be a transport vehicle it seems like 2,000 kg wouldn't be too much weight, correct?

4. Yes you can make a Laser FA, just the power requirements can be a bit hard to supply when they are FA.

Yeah. And the cost is a bitch. Making the vehicle mounted one full auto makes it cost 800K+. I think I will leave that one Single Shot and upgrade the 2 side mounted ones.

[Earlydawn]

I see the MiG as an exception to the T-Bird rule; more of a flying tank-transport. That said, with all the armor and weapons it's made out to be carrying, I doubt it could hold more then eight people. You trade the capacity of something like a 2070 Chinook for armor and the cover fire on landing.

[Emperor Tippy]

I see the MiG as an exception to the T-Bird rule; more of a flying tank-transport. That said, with all the armor and weapons it's made out to be carrying, I doubt it could hold more then eight people. You trade the capacity of something like a 2070 Chinook for armor and the cover fire on landing.

Then were is the damn insertion chopper? The closest I can really come is the MiG. And I'm sorry but something labeled a "transport" bird should be able to carry several thousand kilo's of weight. Seeing as we have current gen choppers that can lift an Abrams, or a shipping crate filled with goods, I find it hard to believe that the thing can't carry 10 people.

[Adarael]

I'd go with roughly a 16-20 person capacity, based on the Blackhawk's carry capacity and expanded a bit to account for the dual role of transport & gunship at once. Given that a Huey can hold 16 passengers, this thing ought to be able to hold at least that much.

[Earlydawn]

..Seeing as we have current gen choppers that can lift an Abrams..

Are you sure about that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Adarael]

For real.
Some can lift M2 Bradleys, such as the Super Stallion and Sea Stallion, but not an Abrams. Those are between 62 and 70 tons, which is about 30-35 tons out of the range of the heaviest lifters.

[Emperor Tippy]

For real.
Some can lift M2 Bradleys, such as the Super Stallion and Sea Stallion, but not an Abrams. Those are between 62 and 70 tons, which is about 30-35 tons out of the range of the heaviest lifters.

Yeah, your right.

[Adarael]

If you really want a great insertion vehicle, think about this idea... Just for the sake of being different...

Take large zepplin, with signature enhancement out the yang. It could hold dozens of troops, easy. Give it some chameleon paint and do some mods to give it a landing bay.
Take all your troops and train them in glider control. Give them Nightgliders or whatever they call them in 4th Edition - Dawngliders? - with chameleon paint on them. Your supersoldiers are now free to glide in and power back out when they're done, and they're just about as radar invisible as you can get.

Zepplins and gliders have such a monumentally low signature to begin with that you can afford to have it be a bit slow, since nobody's gonna see that shit coming. Even the astral isn't going to be an issue if you toss a Concealment Ward on the interior of the cabin walls and gas bladder.

[Fix-it]

Are you sure about that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

they can't YET. supposedly there is research being done on a 4-rotor Osprey that will be able to lift an MBT, but I'll believe it when I see it.

that being said, I prefer the Gulfstream Lux V.

[DocTaotsu]

I've played the MiG as a 2070 equivalent to the CH-53E (my favorite Helo flying. It's a big sexy beast it is). It carries=Yes personnel (it's ridiculous, even with a two pallets woth or Seabee construction crap we were hauling like 16 people). But sadly not main battle tanks.

[Emperor Tippy]

If you really want a great insertion vehicle, think about this idea... Just for the sake of being different...

Take large zepplin, with signature enhancement out the yang. It could hold dozens of troops, easy. Give it some chameleon paint and do some mods to give it a landing bay.
Take all your troops and train them in glider control. Give them Nightgliders or whatever they call them in 4th Edition - Dawngliders? - with chameleon paint on them. Your supersoldiers are now free to glide in and power back out when they're done, and they're just about as radar invisible as you can get.

Zepplins and gliders have such a monumentally low signature to begin with that you can afford to have it be a bit slow, since nobody's gonna see that shit coming. Even the astral isn't going to be an issue if you toss a Concealment Ward on the interior of the cabin walls and gas bladder.

Oh I plan on doing that as well. First up is the high speed, high threat environment insertion vehicle.


And here is my MiG:

[ Spoiler ]

MiG-67 (LAV) (VTOL)
Handling: +2
Acel: 50/200
Speed: 800
Pilot: 6
-Clearsight 6
-Defense 6
-Electronic Warfare 6
-Maneuver 6
-Targeting (lasers) 6
Body: 18
Armor: 20
Sensor: 6
-Atmosphere Sensor 3
-Camera (all 6 sides)
-Flare Compensation
-Image Link
-Low Light
-Smartlink
-Thermographic Vision
-Ultrasound Sensor
-Vision Enhancment (Rating 3)
-Vision Magnification
-Laser Range Finder (all 6 sides)
-Cyberware Scanner 6
-Radio Signal Scanner 6
-Barometric
-Radar 6
-Ultrawideband Radar 4
-Camera Neutralizer 6
-Radiation
Laser Link


Modifications:
-Improved Take off and Landing 2
-ECM 10
-Reinforced Heavy Turret
-Missile Defense System
-Lock-On Countermeasures
-Extra Entry/Exit Points
-Vehicle Tag Eraser
-Armor: Normal +6

Overmodifications:
-Turret x2 (one on the left and right sides)
-Valkyrie Module
-Satellite Communications
-Signature Masking
-Gun Port
-Improved Sensor Array
-Additional Fuel Tank x5
-Ejection Seats

Weapons:
-Ares Firelance Vehicle Laser
-Smartgun System, external
-All Visual Upgrades
-Pilot Upgrade 6
-Clearsight 6
-Defense 6
-Electronic Warfare 6
-Maneuver 6
-Targeting (lasers) 6
-Ares MP Laser 3 x2
-Smartgun System, external
-All Visual Upgrades
-Pilot Upgrade 6
-Clearsight 6
-Defense 6
-Electronic Warfare 6
-Maneuver 6
-Targeting (lasers) 6
-Firing Selection Change, large (SA to FA)
-Power Backpack x6 (another 480 power points to spread around the laser weapons)

Total Cost: 1,709,400

It can carry 10 fully equipped soldiers in Assault armor plus a driver, although the Pilot usually does the flying.

Comments?

[DocTaotsu]

Lasers are cool but I do wonder if you'd get more bang for your buck with a mix of more conventional weapons.

A flexible mounted vindicator for suppressing fire seems like a very handy thing for an assault transport especially for insertion and dust off. I'd also say the a valkyrie module might be a bit overkill (although I don't know how much room it takes up). If it's a substantial cost and/or slot taker I'd suggest swapping it out for a couple of rating 6 med kits.

Also, ruthenium polymer (not sure if that's included in masking). Nothing like a vehicle you to touch down and hide behind a bush.

Basically I'd leave the vehicle laser (because that's just awesome) but I'd throw in a MMG/HMG or even a couple LMG's. If I recall correctly you'll save a bundle of cash and you get a little more utility (and less chance that you'll suddenly run out of go juice at an inopprotune moment)

[Jaid]

Then were is the damn insertion chopper? The closest I can really come is the MiG.

have you looked at the ares dragon? the one right in the core book?

[Emperor Tippy]

Lasers are cool but I do wonder if you'd get more bang for your buck with a mix of more conventional weapons.

A flexible mounted vindicator for suppressing fire seems like a very handy thing for an assault transport especially for insertion and dust off.

Thats what the gun ports are for. I can have 10 guys with hypervelocity HK XM30's poring out any suppressing fire thats needed. The lasers really are mostly for missile defense, long range sniping, and dealing with any heavy weapons in or around the landing zone. With the extra Power Backpacks the lasers have another 480 rounds and the side mounted ones only use 2 per shot while the vehicle laser uses 10 per shot.

I'd also say the a valkyrie module might be a bit overkill (although I don't know how much room it takes up). If it's a substantial cost and/or slot taker I'd suggest swapping it out for a couple of rating 6 med kits.

It does auto stabilization and allows for remote operation on the patient. And it only costs 4K (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Also, ruthenium polymer (not sure if that's included in masking). Nothing like a vehicle you to touch down and hide behind a bush.

Yeah but you can't have both masking or ruthenium polymer. And masking is better.

Basically I'd leave the vehicle laser (because that's just awesome) but I'd throw in a MMG/HMG or even a couple LMG's. If I recall correctly you'll save a bundle of cash and you get a little more utility (and less chance that you'll suddenly run out of go juice at an inopprotune moment)

If I replaced those with LMG's my missile defense net looses 4 dice against rockets. And an LMG is the biggest I can mount.

[DocTaotsu]

Ah, well lasers it is!

[Method]

The largest cargo plane in service with the USAF (the C-5 Galaxy) can only carry 2 M1s max and they are routinely loaded with just one for safety.

EDIT: and according to this site they can transport 270 troops and have four life rafts, each of 25-passenger capacity. Isn't math funny sometimes...

[Emperor Tippy]

have you looked at the ares dragon? the one right in the core book?

Yeah. I might build turn it into an insertion chopper as well. It does have the 22 body which is nice but its a lot slower and has worse handling than the MiG.

[Emperor Tippy]

Ah, well lasers it is!

Yeah, while I don't really mind I'm not exactly enthused with the idea. But with the speed advantage it should be alright.

Remember, this isn't an assault platform, its a high threat insertion platform. Incidentally I'm thinking of turning it into a DocWagon bird as well. For the really high threat areas.

[DocTaotsu]

Well I read "high threat insertion" as "assault".

Are there a great many people trying to kill you? It's an assault. Shooting down missiles with a vehicle laser is not exactly high in the book of "super stealthy sneak sneak" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Emperor Tippy]

Well I read "high threat insertion" as "assault".

Are there a great many people trying to kill you? It's an assault. Shooting down missiles with a vehicle laser is not exactly high in the book of "super stealthy sneak sneak" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

When I was thinking about this it was more about breaking through the AA defenses to get a team inside a defended city or base. Assault works as well, but if doing Assualt I would most likely bring along a few attack birds. Just load up the weapons and keep the insertion bird around as an Anti-Missile bird

[DocTaotsu]

I'm just saying that a vehicle designed for "breaking through AA to land in or around a defended city/base" would generally be termed an assault transport. Like the CH-53E it'd need to be able to protect itself on the way in and out and it would of course require some friendly bad people with bigger guns to accompany it on it's way.