[X] My Assistant

[Fortune]

I read that as the *paydata* should be worth several million to the J.

Shrug. I merely referenced the first appearance of the figure. I didn't provide or even imply any interpretation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As to the subject of standard pay, I don't think there is a 'standard shadowrun fee structure', as every run, and indeed everybody's game is different. You need to find place where everyone is comfortable, then mix it up a little to keep things just a little on edge. At least, that's my opinion.

[Fuchs]

It depends on the expenses. If a team of 4 runners gets 100K for a run, but spends 20K on fake sins for the job, another 10K for nanopaste disguises, and another 10K to replace the weapons they used and dropped and the ammo spent afterwards, they're already down to 15K each. If there's special gear used up or lost during the job (like drones), that's another expense to take care of.

One such run per month would cover a medium to high lifestyle, but not that much will be saved up (not after upgrades, and set back expenses like medical costs).

[ArkonC]

It depends on the expenses. If a team of 4 runners gets 100K for a run, but spends 20K on fake sins for the job, another 10K for nanopaste disguises, and another 10K to replace the weapons they used and dropped and the ammo spent afterwards, they're already down to 15K each. If there's special gear used up or lost during the job (like drones), that's another expense to take care of.

One such run per month would cover a medium to high lifestyle, but not that much will be saved up (not after upgrades, and set back expenses like medical costs).

If beginning runners get payed enough to support a medium to high lifestyle with the most basic of runs once a month, why doesn't every ganger and their dog do it?

[ornot]

Well, you could play where all the PCs reinvent and completely re-equip themselves every mission. Depending on who you are running against, that may not be necessary.

Anything that you might destroy or lose during a run is a legitimate expense, but depending on the run you won't necessarily lose or use anything up. If the job doesn't pay enough to compensate for losing your drones, then don't put them in danger. If the job doesn't pay enough to replace a lost SIN, try not to put your SIN in a position to be compromised.

The unexpected does happen, and that's part of the fun.

I have noticed that 'bread and butter' runs that pay for lifestyle costs have been described as 'not even hitting the table'. I can't get my head around this at all. Does this mean you only actually RP the big money runs? The infiltration into Ares highest security labs, to steal the CEOs clone type runs? And the smaller runs are just assumed to be completed? Why bother with money, lifestyle or availability at all? When the GM asks where you got your Gauss Rifle, you can just say, I pulled a couple of 10K jobs, and bought it with the proceeds.

[Fuchs]

I have noticed that 'bread and butter' runs that pay for lifestyle costs have been described as 'not even hitting the table'. I can't get my head around this at all. Does this mean you only actually RP the big money runs? The infiltration into Ares highest security labs, to steal the CEOs clone type runs? And the smaller runs are just assumed to be completed? Why bother with money, lifestyle or availability at all? When the GM asks where you got your Gauss Rifle, you can just say, I pulled a couple of 10K jobs, and bought it with the proceeds.

Actually, while we do play out every run, and usually every day of "civilian life" even, we do not bother with money, lifestyle or availability anymore. Gear is aquired by GM approval, normal gear not requiring anything, special gear (like aforementioned Gauss Rifle) for example needing a run.

[Fuchs]

If beginning runners get payed enough to support a medium to high lifestyle with the most basic of runs once a month, why doesn't every ganger and their dog do it?

In my campaign, not every ganger has the skills, smarts, and dicispline needed for shadowrunning in that price range.

[Fortune]

Note the 'most basic of runs' qualifier.

[ArkonC]

In my campaign, not every ganger has the skills, smarts, and dicispline needed for shadowrunning in that price range.

So you are saying the most basic of runs for beginning runners shouldn't pay 100K?
(Which, incidentally is what Tippy is claiming, that they should...)

EDIT: clarification

[Fuchs]

I think it depends on what counts as "the most basic runs". Tippy seems to consider runners as the high-paid pros hired for special, high-risk tasks. I doubt he considers "go and persuade Mom and Pop to sell their store to my firm so I can start with my mall project" a job for shadowrunners.

Personally, in the classic campaigns I ran (my current is mafia-centric, so not the same), where the usual set up was "Mr. Johnson calls fixer, who sets up a meeting with the team", the campaigns started at a point where the runners did get aforementioned high-paying jobs. We did not play out how the various characters started in the shadows and gained the skills and contacts to get those jobs. In a way, we defined shadowrunners as "those people doing high-paying, high-risk jobs", and anyone not doing those jobs was not a runner yet but a ganger, wanna-be, or greenhorn, and usually would not get to meet Mr. Johnson at all, but would get some jobs from fixers. But a "beginning runner" was, back then in my campaigns, some who started doing those high-paying jobs, not someone who started doing minor courier work or break-ins in unguarded warehouses.

These days, I do things a bit differently, but then, we do not use money anymore, and have a different set up than "Fixer/Johnson", so it's a moot point.

It's a matter of semantics and intended "power level" I think.

[Janice]

So you are saying the most basic of runs for beginning runners shouldn't pay 100K?
(Which, incidentally is what Tippy is claiming, that they should...)

EDIT: clarification

Actually, as far as I can tell, he's saying a starting 400 BP runner should. Considering that 400 BP runners are WELL above gangers, this doesn't seem unreasonable if you run a fairly paranoid game of Shadowrun.

[ArkonC]

Well, to get the high paying high risk jobs, you'd need an established reputation and are, by definition, not a beginning runner...
You may begin playing you character at this point, but the character doesn't begin his career here...
The first runs are the shitty ones where you barely break even and risk your life for little to no money...
While I can understand skipping to the high end spectrum of play, the low end still exists...

And paying someone new to the game a minimum of 100K for a milk run is just plain crazy, no matter how you rationalize it...

[Janice]

Well, to get the high paying high risk jobs, you'd need an established reputation and are, by definition, not a beginning runner...
You may begin playing you character at this point, but the character doesn't begin his career here...
The first runs are the shitty ones where you barely break even and risk your life for little to no money...
While I can understand skipping to the high end spectrum of play, the low end still exists...

And paying someone new to the game a minimum of 100K for a milk run is just plain crazy, no matter how you rationalize it...

Considering the precautions he's mentioned, I highly doubt there are milk runs involved in his games.

[ArkonC]

Considering the precautions he's mentioned, I highly doubt there are milk runs involved in his games.

As I said, just because he skips them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Fuchs]

Then the only question is: Do the runners start out when the players start a campaign, or are they established runners? I do not recall anything abut that in the rules, and I consider that a matter of personal preference.

[Cthulhudreams]

Look, the only real basis for a job is what your runners background and lifestyle determines they should get payed.

If your team are refugees from Mr and Mrs Smith with high lifestyles, they need to ger 10k Per Person PLUS expenses per job just to break even if they do a job a month. So you seriously need to throw down 70-80k on a job. Then give them 80k jobs for your team of 4. However, make sure their run is complex and testing - big runs for big money

Its a totally different equation if your team are all homeless alcholics who live in cardboard boxes in the barrens. 5 k is big money here. So you can have a job where you go steal mr big shot gangers bike or some shit once a month.

Edit: This makes it important that players have the same lifestyle, and I actually mandate that they do.

There a couple of other factors.
Like if the mage uses a bound spirit he's out like 3 grand, and a drone costs the rigger that much too so if you are throwing lots of them down, push the team towards the high lifestyle, big money end of the bracket.

Finally you need to make sure the street sammies get enough money to pay for new bling as they are powered by money rather than karma. This is easy to fix though, if the street sammies are getting to good, hand out more karma and foci, if the street sammies are sucking, hand out the cash as though it was halloween, except you are giving out the candy and the candy is fat wads of cash

Anything else is really just bollocks and distracts from that core issue. Guys need to eat, and pay for crap they need.

[ArkonC]

Then the only question is: Do the runners start out when the players start a campaign, or are they established runners? I do not recall anything abut that in the rules, and I consider that a matter of personal preference.

It doesn't matter whether you start out as beginners or as established runners, at one point, they were beginning runners...
And considering most people start with a rep of 0, I'd say they are beginners (or screw-ups)...
Anyway, 'nuff said on the subject...
I'm right, everyone else is wrong... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Shiloh]

I have noticed that 'bread and butter' runs that pay for lifestyle costs have been described as 'not even hitting the table'. I can't get my head around this at all. Does this mean you only actually RP the big money runs? The infiltration into Ares highest security labs, to steal the CEOs clone type runs? And the smaller runs are just assumed to be completed? Why bother with money, lifestyle or availability at all? When the GM asks where you got your Gauss Rifle, you can just say, I pulled a couple of 10K jobs, and bought it with the proceeds.

By basic runs I'm referring to the

Assassination: 5000
Bodyguard: 200/day
Burglary: 2000
Courier Run: 1000
Datasteal: 20% Value of Data
Distraction: 1000
Destruction: 5000
Enforcement: 1000
Encryption/Decryption: 200/per MP
Extraction: 20k
Hacking: 1000 x Host's Security Value SR3 Matrix.
Investigation: 200/day
Smuggling Run: 5000

that Sir_Psycho threw up.

"Your fixer calls. He wants a package taken across town."
"What's the pay? He says 800; simple milk run. Not even any borders to cross."
"He wants this gear shifting now? Delivered by when?! And I bet it's hot... 1200 or I'll just go rob a convenience store."
"Roll your negotiation... okay he bumps it to a round thousand, and you think that's probably his budget."
"Kay, I'll take it. I'll see him at the club in 10."
"You meet him, get the package."
"I turn off the gridlink, swap the plates on the bike, scoot across town avoiding trouble."
"Roll shadow to notice the cop car and drive bike to slow down in time"
"Made 'em; 3 and 3."
"Area Knowledge: Seattle (2) to find the the drop-off point."
"Easy."
...

Bang: 5 minutes play, 2 hours of game time and 1000:nuyen: in your credstick because you shifted 20ki's of contraband without getting nabbed by the Star. As I see it, *most* of what Shadowrunners do is this sort of thing and it's not worth playing through. It's not every day, but it could certainly be considered to pay at least some of the bills.

Assassination: 5k. By canon.

As to: "Why bother with lifestyle and availability?" Because they mount up. Like run costs do. If it's not worth risking your drones or your van, how much fun is the Rigger going to have?

400BP characters are stuffed full of cyberware and magic and are professionals by any standards. IMO they should all have backstories and a reputation in *certain* discreet circles before they begin play. You want to work up through the leagues, you need to start at 300-350 points.

[Zak]

I think the problem is a metagaming one. GMs don't want to hand out alot of rewards.
And players don't want to spend money on "useless" stuff like Fake SINs or additional security measures if they know any guy the GM wants to will find them anyway.

So they settle for the rediculous pay suggested by Missions or other official material and have fun, because it is too much of an annoyance to argue about it out of game instead of playing. There is nothing you can do if the GM disagrees with you on this matter.
Except rolling a punk and have fun not giving a crap about paranoia.

This is even worse on conventions. Damn, I still cringe at the run involving the theft of an helicopter, a double digit force spirit, SK hitsquads and a briefcase nuke run by a guy employed by Fanpro. We got 5k each. But arguing about it would be no point as we wanted to play the game.

So, dear GMs, if you want to play up the paranoia involved in Shadowrun, please pay your groups properly, so they can reasonably afford to run without being fucked up after the first successful hit.

[JeffSz]

Go out RIGHT NOW, and rent the movie Assassins with Sylvester Stallone and Antonio Banderas. Stallone is a professional assassin, so he makes the larger amount of money per hit, but he's been in the business like 15 to 20 years or more, and if he were in shadowrun he'd probably have a Street Cred rating of 20. He's -the best- in the world. Your shadowrunners should probably make in six months what this guy can make in a day, but it's an AMAZING example of a professional who does have a rep, whose rep gets him the jobs, how that rep can backfire on him, and also who knows what about his exploits.

If you really don't want to see it, (and you should, it was excellent), you can read the spoiler:

Banderas' character, a new up-and-coming assassin, knows all about Stallone - his professional persona, that is - and knows he's the best in the business. He idolizes Stallone's character, and actually aspires to become better than Stallone.

Also in the movie, a woman known only by her internet avatar picture (two glowing green cats eyes) and the word Meow, is an information broker. She's the best surveillance expert in the biz', and can be paralelled with an SR hacker. Everyone in the biz' knows of her, and knows she's the best, but nobody has her name or knows what she looks like.

Both the assassin and the info broker are anonymous and well known at the same time. That's your street rep.

------------------
Him: "Oh my god. You're HyperFizz? JESUS! Did Ares really hire you to blow up that Shiawase Biotech R&D lab?"

You: Chuckle and answer, "Yep, that was me. Except we think it was really Evo that hired us, and it wasn't an R&D lab - we were hired to shut down a black clinic and liberate the technomancers being experimented on. The explosion was an unfortunate... accident."

Him: "I can't believe how lucky I am to actually meet you. HyperFizz, in the flesh."

You: "Actually, chummer, you've no manner of luck at all." *you shoot him point blank in stomach*

[paws2sky]

I think one of the things wrong with many groups is that they're fixated on nuyen and karma as rewards. Yes, you need those things, otherwise you fall behind on your rent and never get to advance your character. However... once your lifestyle costs are met, I feel like the GM should consider getting creative with adventure rewards.

My own rule of thumb is (average lifestyle cost for the group) * 2 for monthly income, plus circumstantial bonuses. Bonuses I've give out have included: nuyen, services, equipment, contacts, and incidentals. Of course, to get the bonuses they have to do really well on the run...

• Nuyen: Obvious. If the runners do (or don't do) X, Y, and/or Z, then they get a bonus. Usually 10% to 20% for base pay.
• Services: This has included things like a free tune up, discounted street doc services, invitation to get some work done at a top notch cyber-clinic, and so on.
• Equipment: Again, pretty obvious. New fake SINs, guns, armor, drones, spell formulas, drugs, etc. In the case of some hard to find items, they might not get it free, but they might get it at a deep discount.
• Contacts: You get a personal introduction to a 3rd party or gain the employer as a contact. Start at Loyalty 1 / Connection (?). Very handy bonus if your team is grossly lacking in some area, like Hacking, for instance.
• Incidentals: NERPS, but something the characters (or their contacts) would like. Tickets to the urban brawl playoffs, concert tickets, etc.

That's just my 2 nuyen, of course.

-paws

[Emperor Tippy]

A couple of points:
1) The 100K figure assumes a group of 5 runners doing 1 run per month and living a high lifestyle. After expenses thats exactly enough to cover the lifestyle. If they want to live lower they can save some money but not alot (medium is saving 5K per month).

2) Johnsons do not higher professional shadow runners to courier packages worth 20 K across town, or convince mom and pop to sell there store, or take out random ganger X. These are jobs that gangers, hangers on, and wannabes get. The runners might get a job to courier some stolen bioweapon across town for the mob, with everyone looking to recover it, or to convince 10 mom and pops to sell, or to assassinate a gangs leadership.

3) I don't just make everyone I want able to find the runners or track them. If the runners take proper precautions then it requires them pissing off the Corporate Court or the like before they are really in danger of being tracked or found.

4) I don't expect Johnson's to pay in services, equipment, contacts, or incidentals. The first 2 and the 4th make it far to easy to track the runners while the 3rd is something the Johnson doesn't want. He wants denihability, which is hard when he is introducing them to someone. Note: This only applies to corp Johnsons. Not runs that the runners do as favors or the like.

5) I expect the runners to do their own runs when they aren't being highered by someone else. This is anything from favors for friends, to stealing artwork, to staging events so that they can come in and save the day and gain a contact.

6) The higher payouts are for progressively fewer runs. At 500K you may only get a run every 4-5 months. At a million you might again only get a run every 4-5 months but be living a luxury lifestyle.

[hyzmarca]

A couple of points:

1) The 100K figure assumes a group of 5 runners doing 1 run per month and living a high lifestyle. After expenses thats exactly enough to cover the lifestyle. If they want to live lower they can save some money but not alot (medium is saving 5K per month).

It is assumed that runners will spend most of their money upgrading gear and ware, training, replenishing supplies, and saving for the big toys. It is a truism that in the life of every gunbunny there comes a time when he must pay for a rating 6 fake military/law enforcement ID to get into a hardcore Blackwater training course. And, of course, upgrade his reflexes. And buy cool new guns. And lasers. And magic bullets with anchored spells on them - those are very expensive but they're damn sure worth it when the fit hits the shan.

2) Johnsons do not higher professional shadow runners to courier packages worth 20 K across town, or convince mom and pop to sell there store, or take out random ganger X. These are jobs that gangers, hangers on, and wannabes get. The runners might get a job to courier some stolen bioweapon across town for the mob, with everyone looking to recover it, or to convince 10 mom and pops to sell, or to assassinate a gangs leadership.

They do, actually. Its actually worse than that. Johnsons actually hire Shadowrunners to help (very important) old ladies cross the (gang infested) street. The Genesis game has these fun little courier runs which involve taking a package next door. That isn't to say these are top of the line runners or that they get paid well, they aren't and they don't. Such runs are basically limited to runners who are just breaking into the industry and lack both skills and contacts.

3) I don't just make everyone I want able to find the runners or track them. If the runners take proper precautions then it requires them pissing off the Corporate Court or the like before they are really in danger of being tracked or found.

There is proper precautions and then there are proper precautions. There is pissed off and then there is pissed off. There are always ways to identify someone and always ways to find someone. It is impossible to completely cover one's tracks. The advantage of Shadowrunners is that it is rarely worth the effort to bother. But, a little bit of magic is really all it takes. A single security camera picture and a magican who can conjure is all that is necessary to find someone anywhere on Earth except behind some absurdly high-force wards. And even absurdly high-force wards aren't a perfect defense.
The best defense that runners have is that they are just tools that no one cares about.

4) I don't expect Johnson's to pay in services, equipment, contacts, or incidentals. The first 2 and the 4th make it far to easy to track the runners while the 3rd is something the Johnson doesn't want. He wants denihability, which is hard when he is introducing them to someone. Note: This only applies to corp Johnsons. Not runs that the runners do as favors or the like.

That depends on the level of anonymity involved. Equipment from a different company with the serial numbers removed it perfectly reasonable. Services may be, depending on how it is set up. A discount coupon for the local Bunraku parlor wouldn't be that traceable as such things can easily change hands. Just because the Johnson is supplying a service doesn't mean that he's actually supplying it or that he is connected to the suppliers. With contacts, it depends on the level of anonymity. If I introduce a guy who I don't know to another guy I don't know and neither of them know me, well there is little chance of it being traced back to me because none of us have any idea who the others are. Introducing anonymous contacts to anonymous contacts does work well, particularly when neither know that you are the one doing the introducing.

5) I expect the runners to do their own runs when they aren't being highered by someone else. This is anything from favors for friends, to stealing artwork, to staging events so that they can come in and save the day and gain a contact.

Obviously, though this is substantially more dangerous because this time it's personal. They still need downtime to rest and train, however.

6) The higher payouts are for progressively fewer runs. At 500K you may only get a run every 4-5 months. At a million you might again only get a run every 4-5 months but be living a luxury lifestyle.

The big issue that is equipment upgrades and upkeep. At a million nuyen a run a gunbunny can quickly max out his 'ware. But getting all delta synaptic booster 3 is still extremely expensive, more than one run will pay for.

[Emperor Tippy]

It is assumed that runners will spend most of their money upgrading gear and ware, training, replenishing supplies, and saving for the big toys. It is a truism that in the life of every gunbunny there comes a time when he must pay for a rating 6 fake military/law enforcement ID to get into a hardcore Blackwater training course. And, of course, upgrade his reflexes. And buy cool new guns. And lasers. And magic bullets with anchored spells on them - those are very expensive but they're damn sure worth it when the fit hits the shan.

Sure, I expect them to spend a lot of money and effort doing both. If they pull 2 of these 100K runs per month then they get 10K a month for upgrades. Or perhaps they do 3-4 runs on their own each month to raise advancement money. These are anything from the players hearing that the military is moving a truck full of weapons too raiding the LS drug storage. Or even other, lower level runs. Like providing security for the arms dealer at a meet where he expects no trouble. Or the hacker going in and hacking his way into databases and seeing what he can find to sell.

They do, actually. Its actually worse than that. Johnsons actually hire Shadowrunners to help (very important) old ladies cross the (gang infested) street. The Genesis game has these fun little courier runs which involve taking a package next door. That isn't to say these are top of the line runners or that they get paid well, they aren't and they don't. Such runs are basically limited to runners who are just breaking into the industry and lack both skills and contacts.

See, the big thing is the lack of skills. I would consider said person a wannabe or ganger, not a shadowrunner.

There is proper precautions and then there are proper precautions. There is pissed off and then there is pissed off. There are always ways to identify someone and always ways to find someone. It is impossible to completely cover one's tracks. The advantage of Shadowrunners is that it is rarely worth the effort to bother. But, a little bit of magic is really all it takes. A single security camera picture and a magican who can conjure is all that is necessary to find someone anywhere on Earth except behind some absurdly high-force wards. And even absurdly high-force wards aren't a perfect defense.

Thats why all runs are done with nanopaste disguises, so that security camera pictures don't provide anything useful. And why the characters get a genetic reprint followed by genewipe treatment as soon as they have the 75K for it. Any previous ritual samples are worthless and no new ones will be left. And when you are doing runs that will piss off the CC you should be being paid enough to take all those, and more, precautions.

The best defense that runners have is that they are just tools that no one cares about.

The best defense that runners have is that they are just tools that no one knows about.

That depends on the level of anonymity involved. Equipment from a different company with the serial numbers removed it perfectly reasonable. Services may be, depending on how it is set up. A discount coupon for the local Bunraku parlor wouldn't be that traceable as such things can easily change hands. Just because the Johnson is supplying a service doesn't mean that he's actually supplying it or that he is connected to the suppliers. With contacts, it depends on the level of anonymity. If I introduce a guy who I don't know to another guy I don't know and neither of them know me, well there is little chance of it being traced back to me because none of us have any idea who the others are. Introducing anonymous contacts to anonymous contacts does work well, particularly when neither know that you are the one doing the introducing.

Services and equipment aren't as much a problem for the Johnson as for the characters. The Johnson knows what equipment he gave you and what serial numbers it had. He knows the ID number on that coupon. If the Johnson gives me a gun I assume that he has a full work up on the gun. So if its used to hit a facility of his corporation then when they look at the bullets they will know that it was the gun given to our team that was used. Whether or not your team still had the gun doesn't really matter, it gives them a trail to start tracing.

Obviously, though this is substantially more dangerous because this time it's personal. They still need downtime to rest and train, however.

Sure, the still need downtime. And they can take it when they want to. As for it being personal, often its not. It's just like a regular run except without the Johnson. They players hear about something valuable or whatever and then plan a run to acquire it.

The big issue that is equipment upgrades and upkeep. At a million nuyen a run a gunbunny can quickly max out his 'ware. But getting all delta synaptic booster 3 is still extremely expensive, more than one run will pay for.

Sure, at a million nuyen he can max his ware, but by the time he is making that on a run he already has it close to maxed. Delta synaptic 3 is about all he doesn't necessarily have.

[Fortune]

If a runner is a tool that no-one knows about, then he is a useless tool.

Emperor Tippy: You seem to think that the Corporate Court, or indeed any individual Megacorporation actually gives a shit about exacting revenge on Shadowrunners. Shadowrunners are a tool that everyone 'in the know' in the corporate world is aware of, and make use of. Just because one specific group of 'runners ripped off that special prototype last month doesn't mean they cannot be utilized this month by their previous victims. Once the job is done, nobody cares about the Shadowrunners until the next time they are needed ... not the employer ... not the victimized corp ... and not the Corporate Court. Even in the case of really high profile jobs ... unless they screw up.

Sure there are cases where betrayals and the like occur, but they should not be the norm, or there would be no shadow business at all.

[Emperor Tippy]

If a runner is a tool that no-one knows about, then he is a useless tool.

Again, your fixer(s) know that X exists. They have a way to contact you, which should be effectively untraceable. That isn't information that can be used to trace you.

Emperor Tippy: You seem to think that the Corporate Court, or indeed any individual Megacorporation actually gives a shit about exacting revenge on Shadowrunners. Shadowrunners are a tool that everyone 'in the know' in the corporate world is aware of, and make use of. Just because one specific group of 'runners ripped off that special prototype last month doesn't mean they cannot be utilized this month by their previous victims. Once the job is done, nobody cares about the Shadowrunners until the next time they are needed ... not the employer ... not the victimized corp ... and not the Corporate Court. Even in the case of really high profile jobs ... unless they screw up.

Sure there are cases where betrayals and the like occur, but they should not be the norm, or there would be no shadow business at all.

Sure, they generally don't. As I said, you have to do something really bad to get the CC after you. Like Winternight level bad. Or use WMD's. Or be causing them enough public problems that it becomes cheaper to have you eliminated than just absorb the loss. If you hit the same corp repeatedly then it becomes cheaper for them to take you out than it does to keep fixing the damage. Sure, someone else might be highered for the run. But when Ares goes and takes them out the price to higher said runners goes up.

If runners are causing you a hundred million worth of damages a year then its in your best interest to spend 10 million to deter them. Deterrence can be done by publicly taking out the people executing said runs against you.

So if you run against a corp and they can trace you with 5 minutes worth of work then its in their best interests to take you out either with their own forces or by highering other runners, and making sure that the Shadows know it was you who did it. If it will take you 6 months and cost 50 million to track the runners down, its not worth the trouble.