[X] My Assistant

[D Minor]

I'd buy it

[knasser]

he's not trying to generate fan fiction. he's basically testing the waters so that if there *is* a lot of interest in such a project being made, he can go to catalyst and say "hey look, there's a lot of interest in this kind of product, and here's a list of people who would like to work on it, you should do something with that".

in other words, he's trying to get together enough evidence that a shadowrun anthology would sell well and would be easy to get rolling that catalyst will be more likely to decide to make one, as far as i can tell.

EXACTLY!!!

Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I know there are talented authors around here. It would be great if they could contribute to an actual published anthology. And if they can so many game supplements, I'm sure they could sell a novel.

[Critias]

I'm in, if anything gets rolling (though I've spoken with Synner about a similar project enough that I like to think he knows that).

And, Frank, please remember that "hours per thousand words" guidelines aren't the same for everyone, nor are they the same for fiction as opposed to more technical (or supposed-to-be-technical), dry, sourcebook writing.

[HMHVV Hunter]

I'm on board with this.

It's just that after submitting "Redemption", I've gotta think of another good story idea...

[ornot]

he's not trying to generate fan fiction. he's basically testing the waters so that if there *is* a lot of interest in such a project being made, he can go to catalyst and say "hey look, there's a lot of interest in this kind of product, and here's a list of people who would like to work on it, you should do something with that".

in other words, he's trying to get together enough evidence that a shadowrun anthology would sell well and would be easy to get rolling that catalyst will be more likely to decide to make one, as far as i can tell.

I think I understood what Knasser wanted too.

If there were an anthology I'd buy it, and if there was anything I could do practically I'd like to help it happen.

[FrankTrollman]

Catalyst is putting some new fiction together. Unfortunately, the last thing they said about it was that they intended to go to their established fiction writing people. And honestly, I think that's a terrible idea. As far as I know, all of the good authors that Shadowrun has ever had are out of the game or dead. Dragging up the old authors who are still churning out fiction leaves us with people like Koke and Pollotta, and that's just not a good idea for a number of reasons.

I think that knasser's idea has a lot of promise. Most anyone can write a short story, and most people who can run a game can plot out a halfway decent one. With some strong editorial control to keep the world fiction coherent, it could easily work much better. I mean, Shadowboxer has a guy goblinize into a dwarf of all things. With a series of short stories it's a lot easier to put your foot down on crap like that, which should be the number one priority of shared world fiction (well, number two after "being a good read," but you know what I mean).

-Frank

[Zen Shooter01]

No, Frank. Not "most anyone" can write a short story.

[FrankTrollman]

No, Frank. Not "most anyone" can write a short story.

Yes. Honestly they can. Writing is not like racing or lifting where one's physical talents determine whether you are able to perform the task. Writing really is a truly democratic endeavor. If you want to do it, if you like to do it, you can do it. Virginia Wolfe is full of shit, you don't need to be a member of the elite to put words down for posterity and you don't need society to cordon off resources to allow you time to write without adding ought else to the wheels of civilization and economy. No one spends every moment of their life putting their shoulders to productive or reproductive labor, and anyone can use language and tell stories.

If you don't want to spend your free time saving words of tales to be later read, that's fine. Many people don't like others to read their thoughts, and many more simply have little or no desire to spend time that could be spent sleeping or hitting on women to store prose for later use. But it's not because they can't, it's because they won't.

We can and should consider the tragedy of the people in Darfur, Myanmar, and Palestine who seriously live in situations where their writing may be taken as an excuse by the powerful to destroy their lives or their families. But within the context we are talking about, such extreme situations aren't particularly applicable. Certainly anyone who posts here could write a story. Whether they want to devote the kind of time required to make one or not is a calculus that I cannot evaluate for any other person.

-Frank

[ornot]

No, Frank. Not "most anyone" can write a short story.

I'd agree with Frank that anyone can write short fiction.

It might not be good fiction, but that's where the editor would come in and decide whether a given piece was good enough to publish. If it's not, then it sucks for the author, but hell, even a good author can write a duff story.

[Critias]

So while it's true that anyone can write a short story, not "anyone" can write one worth paying money to read.

"Anyone" can do lots of shit. They just can't do it as well as someone who's actually good at it.

[Synner667]

On a related note, I've always wondered why the "official" SR Missions haven't been collected and bound into something that can be bought...
...Especially as most of the work has already been done, and would just need printing and distribution [even if just available as PDFs or print-on-demand via lulu.com]


This sort of "fans make something and company refuses to use it" seems to come up quite a lot [there's a WH40K film that's been put together, but can't be released because Games Workshop won't allow it, for instance]...
...And I can never understand why, when they have have people gagging to spend money and they have material available to use, they just refuse to get involved.

Don't these companies like making money, and getting greater exposure, and having their work done for them ??

I know there are legal issues, and the material's reflection on the company...
...But having several people working with some sort of company representative/project manager, possibly receiving some of the money from the final product in royalties, can't be that impossible ??


Of course, the cyberpunk way would be to do it anyway, using aliases and being untraceable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Adam]

It would take a relatively significant amount of work to take the first and second seasons of SRM and turn them into something that could be sent to a printer -- traditional or POD -- at a quality we would be satisfied with.

[Synner667]

It would take a relatively significant amount of work to take the first and second seasons of SRM and turn them into something that could be sent to a printer -- traditional or POD -- at a quality we would be satisfied with.

You're completely right...
...And I'm not trying to say it'd be easy or quick.

But compiling what you have, for a product that people would pay for vs creating and writing such a product from scratch, has got to be quicker and easier.

The files should already exist [maybe in Indesign or Quark format, for laying out]...
...So layout and some extra material might have to be tweaked.

Reuse some artwork.

Add some material to campaign-ise the material and look...
...And Robert's your genetically linked relative !!


In fact, I've been surprised that releasing the Missions as downloadable PDFs and then releasing the Missions as a compilation wasn't the plan...
...As there as NO scenarios from SR 3 or SR 4 available to buy, and it just seems such an obvious money maker >shrug<

[ornot]

On a related note, I've always wondered why the "official" SR Missions haven't been collected and bound into something that can be bought...
...Especially as most of the work has already been done, and would just need printing and distribution [even if just available as PDFs or print-on-demand via lulu.com]


This sort of "fans make something and company refuses to use it" seems to come up quite a lot [there's a WH40K film that's been put together, but can't be released because Games Workshop won't allow it, for instance]...
...And I can never understand why, when they have have people gagging to spend money and they have material available to use, they just refuse to get involved.

Don't these companies like making money, and getting greater exposure, and having their work done for them ??

I know there are legal issues, and the material's reflection on the company...
...But having several people working with some sort of company representative/project manager, possibly receiving some of the money from the final product in royalties, can't be that impossible ??


Of course, the cyberpunk way would be to do it anyway, using aliases and being untraceable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I've seen that subject come up in another thread. The logistical complications were mentioned then.

Considering that each adventure is around 15-20 pages, the player handouts cover a further 5-10 pages, and there are 20 odd adventures even in just the second cycle a compilation would be on the order of 200 pages. A considerable challenge. It might be quite profitable, but then again perhaps it's better from our point of view for Catalyst to focus on making new books.

What might be good is if the website was more prominently displayed on the book, and the missions remained available for download as a kind of added content. Spin it out as a marketing strategy sort of thing.

[Backgammon]

I'm only a SRM Writer and not part of the direction "staff", so I can only speak at that level. But I feel SRM has a certain level of priority and attention from CGL and they do have plans to continue to promote SRM and improve upon it (I won't go into details).

But it is not the case of fan-material being ignored by the corporation is all I'm saying.

Back to my wholely speculative self and not speaking at any informed level, I think CGL does monitor opportunities, but they have to be VERY careful about moving on them as the profit margin must be very thin one way or another and they can't afford non-profitable mistakes.

[Adam]

In fact, I've been surprised that releasing the Missions as downloadable PDFs and then releasing the Missions as a compilation wasn't the plan...
...As there as NO scenarios from SR 3 or SR 4 available to buy, and it just seems such an obvious money maker >shrug<

I'm sorry, but you're making a bunch of assumptions as to how much time/effort/money it would take to "finish" these projects and how much money they would make. We know how much work it is, we know what we could expect to sell, we know how much money we would [or wouldn't] make, and we've used that research to adapt our plans for these sort of products/support material in the future, but it is *incredibly* unlikely that Season 2 of the SR4 Missions will show up as a printed book, and 100% unlikely that Season 1, the SR3 campaign, will.

All of the previous Missions adventures are still available as free downloads; that's 39 adventures in total.

[CanRay]

I like free.

My bank account likes free even better! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Thanks Catalyst!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Now, to convert Denver into Seattle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[GrepZen]

It seems SR Fiction is suffering from a lack of writers and visibility so why not out-source/cross-license the fiction department to a good publisher with a good stable of writers?

[Critias]

From what I've been told, it's not writers that's the problem. It's editors, and (more specifically) it's just a matter of priorities. They're more worried with game books, so they're allocating more resources and man hours towards game books right now. When they get time, they'll focus on the fiction aspect more.

[Adam]

It seems SR Fiction is suffering from a lack of writers and visibility so why not out-source/cross-license the fiction department to a good publisher with a good stable of writers?

We have had the license to produce printed Shadowrun fiction for less than two weeks. I'm not sure what you expect us to produce in that time frame ...

[Edit: and I should point out that in all previous cases where a third party publisher [ROC] published Shadowrun fiction for WizKids and FASA, WizKids and FASA did all the work of actually producing the content: writing, editing, copy-editing, etc. ROC didn't provide them with a "stable of writers" or anything like that.]

[knasser]

We have had the license to produce printed Shadowrun fiction for less than two weeks. I'm not sure what you expect us to produce in that time frame ...

Books! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But seriously, if you now have the license then we expect great things in the future. Some decent fiction would be a very positive thing for the game itself. And if you do consider an anthology of short fiction, let us know so that we can send in some proposals. There's a lot of good talent and enthusiasm out here.

Did I say that already?

[Adam]

Books! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Well, I've been doing that, that's for sure ...

But seriously, if you now have the license then we expect great things in the future. Some decent fiction would be a very positive thing for the game itself. And if you do consider an anthology of short fiction, let us know so that we can send in some proposals. There's a lot of good talent and enthusiasm out here.

Did I say that already?

And I think I already said that if we think we need to expand our author pool, we'll be posting an open call. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I don't have any sort of timeframe on that, though, as a) we haven't finalized if any of our fiction offerings will be an anthology, and b) if we do an anthology, we don't know where it will be on the schedule, but it probably won't be the first book out of the gate. Anthologies don't sell near as well as novels, and if we released an anthology first, that may set in booksellers minds that our new fiction offerings sell X number of copies, when a novel may have sold X*5 ... better to release the novel first and show them good numbers out of the gate.

Again, the license was only finalized a couple weeks ago, so we're busy doing all sorts of legwork -- getting quotes from multiple printers, talking to prospective authors and editors, lining up an artist for the covers, chasing up a variety of loose ends. It's, ah, interesting times.

[FrankTrollman]

And I think I already said that if we think we need to expand our author pool, we'll be posting an open call.

You need to expand your author pool. Seriously.

-Frank

[Adam]

You need to expand your author pool. Seriously.

I suspect you're talking about the game authors, and, as usual, the guidelines for submissions are at: http://shadowrun4.com/catalyst/writers_guidelines.shtml

[FrankTrollman]

I suspect you're talking about the game authors, and, as usual, the guidelines for submissions are at: http://shadowrun4.com/catalyst/writers_guidelines.shtml

I'm out of the loop on that and have been for over a year, so I'm not able to comment on it directly. But all of the good fiction authors for Shadowrun are out of the game or dead. So you need to expand your author's pool.

-Frank