Hacking question! Options

[psionghost]

Just a quick question on hacking, when your hacking on the fly you use your hacking + exploit against (firewall, 1 CT) Extended Test mod'd vs sec or admin level access right?

Also, it says the system gets a free, Analyze + Firewall (stealth) to be detected? so is that your basic stealth rating only or is your hacking skill involved as well too? If you brute force your way in on the first round does the system still get to run that check?

Im just wondering if any other modifier applies?

Just seems that, In my book the 5th printing corrected of the BBB.

That the system is running an opposed extended test against you vs only your stealth to detect you? Say im breaking into a system and i want sec access vs a high level system = Character would roll Hacking 6 + Exploit 6 vs (6 + 3 sec access = 9) Extended Test.

And the system would roll Analyze 6 + firewall 6 vs my stealth of (6)?

So nothing i can do increase my chance of staying hiding when hacking on the fly? or am i reading it wrong and i get to roll stealth plus another dice pool?

please help.

[Leofski]

Stealth acts as a threshold, you stay undetected by getting in quicker or having stealth 10+.

[psionghost]

Stealth acts as a threshold, you stay undetected by getting in quicker or having stealth 10+.

Ok, im still touchy on the hacking rules, i thought your programs could only go to a max of 6? So you can have a rating higher then 6? so basicly in theory you could have after chargen a program of say 12?

[Zak]

Ok, im still touchy on the hacking rules, i thought your programs could only go to a max of 6? So you can have a rating higher then 6? so basicly in theory you could have after chargen a program of say 12?

well, not really.
Programs over rating 6 should be nearly impossible to get.
Under current rules, the highest rating you can get is 10. Which is programmed by an adept with aptitude:software and 3 ranks of Improved Skill: Software (it was Software capping the max rating of programmed softs right?).
So let's just forget about it.

[psionghost]

well, not really.
Programs over rating 6 should be nearly impossible to get.
Under current rules, the highest rating you can get is 10. Which is programmed by an adept with aptitude:software and 3 ranks of Improved Skill: Software (it was Software capping the max rating of programmed softs right?).
So let's just forget about it.

Ya i just assumed anything outside rating index unless otherwise noted was pretty much 6 by core...

which again in turn why i was asking if there was any other way to increase your stealth rating or bonus to it when hacking on the fly? Im still fresh on hacking rules and they are still pretty vague until unwired hopefully clears that all up.

If there is any thats fine i was just wondering if i missed something or in another book i don't have that as any modifiers or something the hacker can do to help.

[Magus]

Unless you are a Mancer and thread your stealth to 12 +.
Also note that if there is a security spider there is nothing stopping him from rolling Matrix perceptions checks when he wants to.

[Zaranthan]

Unless you are a Mancer and thread your stealth to 12 +.
Also note that if there is a security spider there is nothing stopping him from rolling Matrix perceptions checks when he wants to.

Yeah, but Matrix Perception is Computer[or IC rating] + Analyze vs. Hacking + Stealth. That's WAY farther in the hacker's favor than an extended test vs. your Stealth rating alone.

[Muspellsheimr]

Under current rules, the highest rating you can get is 10. Which is programmed by an adept with aptitude:software and 3 ranks of Improved Skill: Software (it was Software capping the max rating of programmed softs right?).
So let's just forget about it.

I don't recall seeing this limitation. Can you give me a quote/page number?

[Zak]

I don't recall seeing this limitation. Can you give me a quote/page number?

Well, just got a german version with me, so a page won't help you. But it's right at the end of the matrix chapter. Next to the table with programming TH and intervals.
Making your own Hardware and Software is both capped at the skill rating.
Please tell me it's just a fuckup of the german edition. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JoelHalpern]

Also, unless you are a Technomancer, you would need a system of Response 10 and OS 10 in order to be able to run a Program of rating 10 at full effect. (Technomancers do not suffer from this limit.)

I do not see any rules in the book at all for Response over 6. That seems to be the primary limit.

A System of Grade 10 would have a Threshold of 20 and an Interval of 6 months. (So, with 24 dice for the grand-master, that is ONLY 18 months of work. So yes, it is theoretically doable. More likely 16 dice, and 2 Years work.) If someone had the hardware.

Yours,
JoelHalpern

[Muspellsheimr]

BUILDING YOUR OWN HARDWARE
If a hacker wants tobuild his own hardware from scratch, he must follow the rules for Using Technica SKills ot Build and Repair (see p. 125)

The Build Hardware Table provides some sample thresholds and interval periods. Parts costs are always half the cost of buying a hardware upgrade.

CODING YOUR OWN PROGRAMS
True hackers always write their own code (or they will, at least, never admit to using someone else's). Programming software is handled like other buildtasks, as noted under Using Technical Skills to Build and Repair, p. 125).

The Coding Software Table provides some sample thresholds and interval periods

USING TECHNICAL SKILLS TO BUILD OR REPAIR
Using a skill to build or repair something is an Extended Test with a threshold and interval based on the type of item being manufactured or fixed, as noted on the Build/Repair Table. Apply any appropriate modifiers from the tale as well.

Note that by "build" we mean to put together a new item/device from scratch, assuming that the component parts are on hand. Technical skills do not allow a character to create a new item/device from concept alone - that requires something along the lines of an engineering background and lots of collaborative effort.

I could not find anything about such a limit in the English Fifth Printing.

EDIT: Another question regarding Hardware costs. It is my impression from the wording that a rating 6 Response Chip will cost 16,250 - the sum of all the 'new upgrade' ratings. Am I correct in this, or is it always only the cost of the highest 'new rating' value?

If it is the second, why would someone ever buy a stock model, as they are significantly more expensive?

[Teulisch]

i would assume that the response 6 limit applies to portable technology. a 7 would be like a shop, potentially mobile. an 8 like a facility. a nine, more like what you find at the heart of a corporate arcology, with only a few in the world. programming of 9 by those whiz kids who have a 7 in software and a specialization. not something shadowrunners will ever have much access to. a 6(9) limit of this kind makes a lot of sense within the system.

as for hacking in, you have 2 options. you can do it fast, at high risk of detection, or you can do it slow (hours in VR, days in AR) to get in undetected. if your on-site and time is limited, you cant do it the slow and sure way... but if your legworking higher-end systems, you can make that admin access check eventually. a threshold 12 at 1 roll an hour, if your good enough to buy 3 hits then your going to be into that system in about four hours via VR. that would let you put yourself in harms way easy enough, so cold sim may be a better choice. just set up an admin-level backdoor for later, and grab what paydata you need.

[Fortune]

Alternately, we have this quote ...

Matrix attributes generally range in scale from 1 to 6, with the lower ratings indicating cheap, outdated, or salvaged components/software and higher ratings reflecting well-made parts/code. Some cutting-edge and prototype models may exceed rating 6 attributes, but these are exceptionally rare and hard to come by.

[Muspellsheimr]

i would assume that the response 6 limit applies to portable technology. a 7 would be like a shop, potentially mobile. an 8 like a facility. a nine, more like what you find at the heart of a corporate arcology, with only a few in the world. programming of 9 by those whiz kids who have a 7 in software and a specialization. not something shadowrunners will ever have much access to. a 6(9) limit of this kind makes a lot of sense within the system.

Augmentation, a Medical Shop can be used as a Rating 8 Medkit. A Medical Facility can be used as a Rating 10 Medkit. I would assume the same could be applied for matrix hardware. However, I would personally allow a Rating 7 Commlink as high-end corporate/military device. My GM is also currently working on rules for overclocking your comm to up to twice it's base rating, at the expense of it burning out, making it a limited use device that you need to replace regularly. I may post those rules here eventually.

[Zak]

I could not find anything about such a limit in the English Fifth Printing.

Good to know. Good bye stupid german 'limited (as in lacking maps and index) edition' hardcover, let's hope someone gives me money for you on ebay.

[JoelHalpern]

It seems to me that allowing someone to build a device with Response over 6 is very much a GM call.
The rules say that building requires the right parts. It isn't for inventing new things.

An analogy: Building a PC with the hottest chip on the market, even if Dell hasn't chosen to offer it, is buildable. Building such a thing into a laptop would be harder, but would seem to be within the rules. But you don't get to design new CPU chips from scratch.

Given the fluff, it would seem that the GM might allow the player to search for a Response 7 or even 8 unit, but the availability would be very high. (More likely, turn into an excuse for several runs to figure out who has them, etc.)
But the GM seems to be equally within RAW to say "sorry, no response above 6, that's all that is in the table." (At least until unwired comes out.)

This seems to be intended to be part of the attraction of technomancers. They can get their resonance up, given enough karma. And then thread absurd things.

Yours,
Joel Halpern