Improved Ability: Gymnastics, Is this a way around the Combat/Non-combat power costs? Options

[Black Jack Rackh...]

I couldn't find this posted anywhere (despite lots of talk about improved ability) but this occurred to me while working on a new character. To make a adept dodge monster I need to pay .5 per point of Combat Sense. But wouldn't it also be possible substitute Improved Ability: Gymnastics (which is only .25 per level)? I could still use that in the gymnastics dodge. In effect giving me twice as many added dice for the same price. Admittedly, I'd be losing out on the additional surprise dice but Enhanced Perception adds to all perception tests. (Course I could just get contacts with Video Enhancement and earbuds with Audio Enhancement and just pay nuyen for the bonuses).

Mark

[Larme]

I wouldn't ever substitute it. Full defense is rather lame. It's a good way to survive, but it's snivelsome when you're trying to actually win a combat and not just run away. So combat sense is much much better. Those surprise dice aren't just there to look pretty, they can save your ass. And if you have high combat sense, you might be able to dodge attacks from weaker enemies without even going on full defense, which vastly improves your combat deadliness. Improved ability Gymnastics is a great compliment to combat sense, especially because you can stack it with synthacardium, but it's no replacement for a combat focused adept.

[FrankTrollman]

Personally, I find the extra cost for Combat Skills to be insulting and generally house rule it out. Physical and Technical skills are better than Combat skills in SR4, so the cost difference just makes the supposedly "standard" adept (the martial artist) into hobo material.

-Frank

[Aaron]

Don't forget that Improved Ability has a harder cap than Combat Sense.

[Fuchs]

In a face off between two people with equal numbers of IPs, going on full defense often turns out to be a waste of time in my experience, since one cannot attack anymore, so one usually has to take one attack "on the chin", to be able to fight back. It could be useful for lasting until one gains a better position, though.

[Black Jack Rackh...]

Im actually working on an Adept Thief. My intention is not to go toe to toe with anyone. Just want him to be able to flee if he gets in over his head.
Mark

[Dumori]

Gymnastics would be better for that as you add in umping and balnacing for braking into places.

[Glyph]

Improved gymnastics is great, don't get me wrong, but it caps out at 3 (assuming a base gymnastics skill of 6 or 7), and gymnastics dodge is only useful for full defense. Combat sense, by contrast, adds to normal defense rolls, making it far more versatile.

Improved gymnastics is fine, though, if your character is the sneaky type who runs from combat - you will be using full defense much more than, say, a combat-oriented build would. Plus, as Dumori pointed out, you are adding points to a skill that a thief would use a lot anyways.

[Critias]

Hey, it's not like it's an "either/or" thing. Pick up two or three levels of Improved Gymnastics, not only for their combat application but because it completely and totally fits with what you're character is supposed to be good at as a thief/burglar type. Then spend the mojo for a couple levels of Combat Sense, too, and voila. You're all set.

MAGIC: tastes great and is less filling.