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> Commlink confusion, Altered Reality and other junk
Chrysalis
post May 25 2008, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE
She had run through the gauntlet of airport security two hours of waiting from Moscow International for a four hour flight to Amsterdam and another two hour customs inspection as they poked, probed and interrogated her and her luggage. But Vera had landed and a first order was getting a new commlink. Friends had recommended that she use a cheap disposable Meta Link while she was in the country. Of course it ended up being woefully ineffective as it could barely get a signal on a rooftop.

Now she was standing with her luggage neatly piled next to her in a large commlink shop, with every type of commlink imaginable. A young and eager salesman with his corporate tie, sales shirt, and smile greeted her across the shop and smoothly guided himself to her.

"How can I help you miss?" He said with a practiced smile that told he had looked her over, decided how much she was willing to spend and that she was a buying customer.

Vera returned the polite smile "I am looking for a commlink."

"We have a wide variety of commlinks, what particular type might interest you?"

"I want a commlink that run rating 6 empathy and lie detector sensor software, able for me to use AR and basic commlink functions."

"Of course, what we have is..."



This is the point where my patience ran out. I wanted a small jewellery looking commlink that could be discarded when need be. I want it to be able to run my rating 6 empathy software and lie detection sensor software. I want it to have a decent protection so that not every hacker can read my email or look up and edit my adultfriendfinder profile.

According to what I am reading I pick a commlink with a response rating which is important, but I have no idea what it even means, I then have to pick out an OS for it, then I have to buy software for it so it will be safer.

Simrig module makes no sense. I have to buy a simrig module so I can use Altered Reality (AR), despite in the beginning differentiating between AR and Virtual Reality (VR), which in the VR section specifically mentions the simrig module and then the simrig module text says different.

You mean I can't just use my commlink in AR mode by datajack? It comes with no preset software but I have to buy them all separate?

The skin link accessory is the only thing that makes sense until I realise it has a device rating, what's a device rating and what does it have to do with a commlink?

I mean I have read the chapter not once, but several times and still makes no sense.

All I want is a fancy cellphone with AR that I can throw away, not the ultra customised God's gift to the wireless world.

Please. Help.
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Teulisch
post May 25 2008, 02:16 AM
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get a emotitoy, nonmobile rating 6. thats 600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for the ability to run r6 empathy software. just connect it to your PAN via the ski8nlink and your good to go.

for the lie detector... you could probably run it from your commlink or some other specialized device, and link it with the sensors in the emotitoy.
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kigmatzomat
post May 25 2008, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ May 24 2008, 07:22 PM) *
This is the point where my patience ran out. I wanted a small jewellery looking commlink that could be discarded when need be. I want it to be able to run my rating 6 empathy software and lie detection sensor software. I want it to have a decent protection so that not every hacker can read my email or look up and edit my adultfriendfinder profile.


Reasonable on the whole, just remember that Rating 6 is "special order" and beyond the commercial mass-market capabilities.. Your empathy software is the best available to the masses and the hardware has to be up to the job.

QUOTE
According to what I am reading I pick a commlink with a response rating which is important, but I have no idea what it even means, I then have to pick out an OS for it, then I have to buy software for it so it will be safer.


Your software is only as fast as your CPU and operating system.

Response is the "horsepower" of the comm. Low response, low processing power. The System is the operating system; a low system is either inefficient or unaware of advanced components and acts as a bottleneck. Think of running a 1990 operating system on a current computer. Sure, it might run some old applications but it won't be able to access the sound card, advanced video features, multiple processors, etc.


Load a rating:6 empathy soft on a Response:1 comm and your software is degraded to rating 1. The same thing happens if you load a Response:6 comm with rating:1 operating System.

QUOTE
Simrig module makes no sense. I have to buy a simrig module so I can use Altered Reality (AR), despite in the beginning differentiating between AR and Virtual Reality (VR), which in the VR section specifically mentions the simrig module and then the simrig module text says different.


You need to differentiate between a "sim module" and a "simrig." Simrigs are used to record simsense data from a person. The "movies" of 2070 are often full sensory and from the point of view of one or more characters, and the data is collected from actors with simrigs.

Sim modules are needed for a comm to play full simsense data into a user's brain. Since VR is simsense, no VR without a sim module.

QUOTE
You mean I can't just use my commlink in AR mode by datajack?


Actually, you can issue commands to your comm via the datajack but without a sim module, your Comm can't generate any sensory data to project into your brain. You'll need to get data the old fashioned way: through your eyes & ears. You'll either need to use the Comm's built-in screen & speaker or use cybereyes/ears (which always come with image/audiolink) or glasses/contacts/earbuds equipped with image link.

QUOTE
It comes with no preset software but I have to buy them all separate?


Yeah, which is pretty much like real life. If you go to Dell right now you might get asked which of 3-5 operating systems you might want (XP, Vista Home Basic, Vista Home Premium, Vista Pro Basic, Vista Pro Premium) and then any additional software.

But hey, it comes with a free rating 1 Scan utility and can make phone calls, play video files, and do all that other "smartphone" stuff.


QUOTE
The skin link accessory is the only thing that makes sense until I realise it has a device rating, what's a device rating and what does it have to do with a commlink?


Device ratings are generic "catch all" values. P.214 of the BBB has a general device rating list. So your toaster is rating 1. You can treat it as having a response/system/signal/firewall rating of 1. You could run rating:1 software on a toaster. Your Tivo (entertainment system) is rating 2, your car is rating 3.

Skinlink is really an accessory so it really doesn't have a device rating of its own. You could skinlink your toaster, your Tivo, and your car if you wanted.

QUOTE
All I want is a fancy cellphone with AR that I can throw away, not the ultra customised God's gift to the wireless world.


Trouble is, you want rating:6, which is beyond the mass market need. The airport store can sell you a Fairlight Caliban (response4/signal5) with a copy of Novatech Navi (Firewall3/System4) for 9500Y but your applications will be limited to rating 4.

To get rating:6 you have to go to an actual computer store and have them upgrade one for you. First you buy a stock Comm for the screen/radio/battery/etc and then choose the improvements. P.240 has the cost for the upgrades. You'll spend 8,000Y on the response 6 CPU. The software's on p.228 and in the gear section. You'll need System:6 (3000Y) to get the most out of the CPU, and then however much firewall you think is appropriate. If you get the cheapest Comm to start with (Meta Link 100Y) you're looking at 100Y + Response6 8000Y + System 6 3000Y + Firewall 1 200Y = 11,300Y.


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Earlydawn
post May 25 2008, 05:14 PM
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Wait until Unwired, and your team's decker should be able to whip you up something really nice.
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Muspellsheimr
post May 25 2008, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ May 25 2008, 11:03 AM) *
You'll spend 8,000Y on the response 6 CPU. The software's on p.228 and in the gear section. You'll need System:6 (3000Y) to get the most out of the CPU, and then however much firewall you think is appropriate. If you get the cheapest Comm to start with (Meta Link 100Y) you're looking at 100Y + Response6 8000Y + System 6 3000Y + Firewall 1 200Y = 11,300Y.

I disagree with this, in that you can only upgrade a Response 5 to Response 6, meaning that to go from 1 to 6 you will need to pay the cost of upgrading it to a 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6. The same goes for signal. Otherwise, there is no reason to ever get anything other than the cheapest commlink available, as it will always be significantly cheaper to upgrade it than buy a commercial version with the same ratings.
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hobgoblin
post May 25 2008, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ May 25 2008, 07:03 PM) *
Device ratings are generic "catch all" values. P.214 of the BBB has a general device rating list. So your toaster is rating 1. You can treat it as having a response/system/signal/firewall rating of 1. You could run rating:1 software on a toaster. Your Tivo (entertainment system) is rating 2, your car is rating 3.


that toaster may well be rating 0, as even then it has a 3 meter range on its wireless connection (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Fortune
post May 25 2008, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 26 2008, 03:32 AM) *
I disagree with this, in that you can only upgrade a Response 5 to Response 6, meaning that to go from 1 to 6 you will need to pay the cost of upgrading it to a 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6. The same goes for signal.


Got a quote that reflects or backs up that viewpoint?
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Beetle
post May 25 2008, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 25 2008, 01:32 PM) *
I disagree with this, in that you can only upgrade a Response 5 to Response 6, meaning that to go from 1 to 6 you will need to pay the cost of upgrading it to a 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6. The same goes for signal. Otherwise, there is no reason to ever get anything other than the cheapest commlink available, as it will always be significantly cheaper to upgrade it than buy a commercial version with the same ratings.


Consider that today motherboards for computers can support a wide variety of processor configurations. I can easily build a "bare bones" system and when I finally get my Christmas bonus a couple months down the road upgrade the hell out of the machine. This 1 step up business doesn't make any sense. I don't have to go from a 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo chip to a 1.8GHz to a 2.0 to ... etc. Most chipsets are set up with progress in mind so you can upgrade them over time.
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Chrysalis
post May 25 2008, 07:59 PM
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Right I had a look at this with fresh eyes.

Empathy and Lie Detection software can be run off video/trideo device. The funny thing is that such a device does not have any stats or prices. Therefore one could assume that such a device at default might be at a rating 3 and could have a price between 10 and 10,000 nuyen.

Emotitoy is the only comparable device which involves empathy software. However, I refuse to have a talking tickle-me-elmo plushie in a game of Shadowrun, especially one that gives relationship advice.

I decided that instead I would create skinlinked, sim module involved, voight-kampff jewellery with a device rating of 6, which would be double the cost of an emotitoy.

All the data runs through the CMT clip commlink to a datajack with its own memory modules.

This way I can throw away the commlink and keep the expensive and illegal accessory.
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Chrysalis
post May 25 2008, 08:20 PM
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I have to say, as an aside, a gripe I have that commlinks are incredibly fiddly, with an immense amount of mandatory options. I have to say that instead of going to a computer shop and buying a computer I have to carefully choose one of six laptops and then I can't leave it with, but to upgrade it and buy all the software as well. As a customer I would walk out if I had to do that.

-Chrysalis
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Jaid
post May 25 2008, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ May 25 2008, 03:20 PM) *
I have to say, as an aside, a gripe I have that commlinks are incredibly fiddly, with an immense amount of mandatory options. I have to say that instead of going to a computer shop and buying a computer I have to carefully choose one of six laptops and then I can't leave it with, but to upgrade it and buy all the software as well. As a customer I would walk out if I had to do that.

-Chrysalis

actually, you *can* just buy a stock commlink. that's what the stock commlink section is for.
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hobgoblin
post May 25 2008, 08:36 PM
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thing is that one dont need anything beyond the a stock comlink with stock os.

why? because AR can be operated with just that. its just that its much more "effortless" with trodes or glasses&gloves...

it seems that the SR world have pulled of what we cant today for some f-ing reason, make content that adapt to what environment its being accessed in.
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Fortune
post May 25 2008, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ May 26 2008, 06:20 AM) *
I have to say, as an aside, a gripe I have that commlinks are incredibly fiddly, with an immense amount of mandatory options. I have to say that instead of going to a computer shop and buying a computer I have to carefully choose one of six laptops and then I can't leave it with, but to upgrade it and buy all the software as well. As a customer I would walk out if I had to do that.


If you just want a normal, everyday computer, you just walk into the shop and buy one off the shelf.
Similarly, If you just want a normal, everyday commlink, you just walk into the shop and buy one off the shelf.

Alternately though, if you want a top-of-the-line, pimped-out computer capable of running every single program on the market, rendering in record time, and a multitude of other perks, then you have to be willing to be a bit more picky.

The same is true for commlinks. If you want a commlink capable of running all that high-rated software, then you need more than just the stock 'links on the store shelf which are marketed for the lowest common denominator. You would need to get into the high-end gear, or even customization to get the combination of features you desire.
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Chrysalis
post May 25 2008, 09:05 PM
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Would a standard commlink be a CMT clip with Vector Xim OS, sim module, skin link, and rating 3 firewall? That would be a total of 1050 nuyen.

Anyways, I should stop I feel I am becoming argumentative. Being unemployed drives me up the walls.

I should be out running laps instead of looking at this stuff B)
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Beetle
post May 25 2008, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (Chrysalis @ May 25 2008, 04:05 PM) *
Would a standard commlink be a CMT clip with Vector Xim OS, sim module, skin link, and rating 3 firewall? *snip*

No, it's more like a basic commlink. Plus the CMT Clip w/ Vector Xim OS would have a firewall of 1. sim module, skin link are addons. Though I imagine a sim module is a bit of plug and play hardware and not particularly necessary to toss in the trash.

I think a standard commlink is more along the lines of a Renkaru Sensei or a Novatech Airware. *thinks he read somewhere standard commlinks for loot purposes had hardware ratings at 3 if none were otherwise given*
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hobgoblin
post May 25 2008, 09:43 PM
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the skinlink isnt exactly standard, and the added firewall rating is custom addition, but yes.
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Cain
post May 26 2008, 05:38 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 25 2008, 09:32 AM) *
I disagree with this, in that you can only upgrade a Response 5 to Response 6, meaning that to go from 1 to 6 you will need to pay the cost of upgrading it to a 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6. The same goes for signal. Otherwise, there is no reason to ever get anything other than the cheapest commlink available, as it will always be significantly cheaper to upgrade it than buy a commercial version with the same ratings.

Got it in one. There is absolutely no reason to buy a high-end commlink unless you don't want to crunch the numbers.

Sorry, but the RAW makes it so that a custom commlink is not only better, but cheaper and almost as easy to use.
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Cthulhudreams
post May 26 2008, 05:55 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune @ May 25 2008, 04:43 PM) *
Alternately though, if you want a top-of-the-line, pimped-out computer capable of running every single program on the market, rendering in record time, and a multitude of other perks, then you have to be willing to be a bit more picky.


Actually, Dell will home deliver you one within the week if you order online and pay by credit card, that includes all the bling you could possibly want. Okay it's kinda expensive, but yeah.

Maybe a good idea would be to tool up some 'example AR packages' for use by people so they can just cross out 10/20/40/80/120k and write in package 1.

Hrm.
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Muspellsheimr
post May 26 2008, 06:45 AM
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How I had originally thought it works, and what makes sense, is that the cost of a new chip is the cost listed next to it. However, I then looked at the price comparison to stock systems. By this method, a Response 4, Signal 5 link costs 3,000, while the Fairlight Caliban, with the same stats, costs 8,000. While high-end setups do usually cost less to assemble yourself than to buy out-of-the-box from a store, over 60% less is absurd.

My new point of thinking, and thus my above statement on costs is that the chip costs the sum of all the steps to get to it, but you only calculate starting from your current Response due to a trade-in type discount. Although this is not RAW, when you look at the costs, it makes much more sense. With the above example, your 4/5 custom link will be 5,960 - still significantly cheaper than the commercial version of the same statistics, but not nearly as absurd.
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Fortune
post May 26 2008, 06:55 AM
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QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ May 26 2008, 03:55 PM) *
Actually, Dell will home deliver you one within the week if you order online and pay by credit card, that includes all the bling you could possibly want. Okay it's kinda expensive, but yeah.


Exactly. They even allow you to pick and choose the very components you want ... which was kind of my point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Cain
post May 26 2008, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 25 2008, 11:45 PM) *
How I had originally thought it works, and what makes sense, is that the cost of a new chip is the cost listed next to it. However, I then looked at the price comparison to stock systems. By this method, a Response 4, Signal 5 link costs 3,000, while the Fairlight Caliban, with the same stats, costs 8,000. While high-end setups do usually cost less to assemble yourself than to buy out-of-the-box from a store, over 60% less is absurd.

My new point of thinking, and thus my above statement on costs is that the chip costs the sum of all the steps to get to it, but you only calculate starting from your current Response due to a trade-in type discount. Although this is not RAW, when you look at the costs, it makes much more sense. With the above example, your 4/5 custom link will be 5,960 - still significantly cheaper than the commercial version of the same statistics, but not nearly as absurd.

It doesn't actually make more sense, though. If I want to get a 500 gig HD for my computer, it doesn't matter if I currently have a 20 gig or a 200 gig. The price will be the same.

You may be referring to "more sense" from a game balance perspective. Which is fine and dandy, except there's lots of places in SR4 that flat-out don't make sense; and nothing short of a total overhaul can help.
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Cthulhudreams
post May 26 2008, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune @ May 26 2008, 01:55 AM) *
Exactly. They even allow you to pick and choose the very components you want ... which was kind of my point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Yeah, yeah, but thats only if you choose the customise option, the alienware Area-51 ALX High performance gaming PC is pretty tricked out if you click on the 'order now' option straight out of the box. It certainly meets the

QUOTE
Alternately though, if you want a top-of-the-line, pimped-out computer capable of running every single program on the market, rendering in record time, and a multitude of other perks, then you have to be willing to be a bit more picky.


requirement you picky bastard (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (And thats a dell product (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
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Fortune
post May 26 2008, 10:42 AM
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I never said anything about time-frames or ease of order. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

QUOTE (Me)
If you just want a normal, everyday computer, you just walk into the shop and buy one off the shelf.

...

Alternately though, if you want a top-of-the-line, pimped-out computer capable of running every single program on the market, rendering in record time, and a multitude of other perks, then you have to be willing to be a bit more picky.


I would consider someone choosing the top-of-the-line Alienware machine to be 'a bit more picky' than someone willing to settle for a box off the shelf of their local Walmart. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Chrysalis
post May 26 2008, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ May 26 2008, 05:55 AM) *
Maybe a good idea would be to tool up some 'example AR packages' for use by people so they can just cross out 10/20/40/80/120k and write in package 1.

Hrm.



I think that would be a fantastic idea. Anything that makes life easier.

-Chrysalis
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