Opinions Needed: Availability Bump At Start? Options

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I'm about to start up a game, and was wondering: what would the effects of allowing gear up to Availability 16 from the get-go be?

[Hatspur]

The occasional laser weapon, better SINs, Iron man builds (if someone has Aresenal), and the occasional bumped up magic foci.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Iron Man build?

[Hatspur]

Yeah, there would be some crucial stuff missing but you could still pull it off. Me and some friends were looking into the optional rules for the military spec. armor and decided that using a few optional rules using cyberguns and hydraulic jacks you could put a mystic armor adept in that kind of suit and he could kick some serious butt.

With availability at 16 all he could get is the light military armor, which would really limit him.

[Jaid]

you could always mod up a vehicle instead of using the milspec armor =P

(to clarify, when hatspur says iron man build, he means someone making the iron man power armor suit from the comic book character of the same name).

anyways, back to the original question: some stuff wouldn't be effected much, but some things will be affected a lot. expect to see a fair selection of toys that have deliberately been placed just out of reach for an availability 12 game... you probably won't notice the difference between rating 4 and rating 5 fake IDs, for example, but you might notice the difference between skillwires 3 and skillwires 4, or the various stat boosting 'ware being available at rating 3, etc.

[Emperor Tippy]

If your upping it for just nonrestricted/forbidden items it doesn't do a lot and actually makes sense (why was their an availability limit on that stuff anyways/). If you allowed restricted/forbidden gear it can significantly increase the power level (iron man for instance).

[Ryu]

If you have some informal agreement on what is appropiate and what isnt, you can do well without availability restrictions. The gear list is subject to GM approval, too.

[Glyph]

At Availability 16, the really good stuff is still just out of reach, but things like dermal sheathing or muscle toner will be able to go up one, likewise foci. Some guns, armor, and other gear will be within reach now.

Basically, you will be upping the power level of your game, and will need to adjust the opposition accordingly.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Well, yeah, the power level bump is intentional. It's a game with some new people, and I kind of want them to die slightly less quickly.

[Cthulhudreams]

The only real problem is you can buy skillwires 4 at character generation, and skillwires 4 is extremely irritating. That said, if its new guys this may not become the huge issue it otherwise might.

[WeaverMount]

My completely unsolicited opinion is that up the power scale for newcomers isn't the right call. For a shadow runner mastering all your tricks and learning to cover all your bases is what really keep you alive in the end. More toys actually makes that lesson take longer to sink in.

[Cthulhudreams]

Also, more toys make the game harder to understand to support weavermount's point.

[Glyph]

I don't like how some GMs like to start players out low-powered, but I think high-powered games have one thing in common with low-powered games. They are best for more experienced players.

Shadowrun is a game where you can have insta-kill attacks, or close to it, but where defense is not (usually) nearly as good. So stealth, tactics, and doing some legwork before going in guns blazing are important if you want to avoid dying. Too much power can make players feel they are invincible. Actually, it's the opposite, since their opposition will be scaled higher. The most dangerous and lethal games that I have played in have been the high-powered ones.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I'm not upping the opposition, though. I'm intentionally making the game easier.

[ElFenrir]

We've played our games with no limit at chargen since the getgo. We go by the ''pick stuff that at least fits the character'' rule, and it's worked wonderfully.

As I always say, it hasn't upped the power level of our games that much. Are our games on average a bit more high-end than a RAW game? Perhaps. But I always joke when we make a team of kickass people...most of our sessions end up spent rolling Data Search and hanging out in Mchugh's eating burgers, drinking soycaf and working out elaborate plans for three sessions before we actually try something else that involves a fishing pole, hand lotion, and bottlecaps.

Basically, our kickass combat ware, guns, social skills, social ware, and awesome tech stuff rarely get used. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

But 16 isn't bad. It opens up some nice stuff(like Titanium Bone Lacing, which was legal at chargen in SR3, when it was supposedly rarer and more expensive, as well as being not that much better than the Bone Density(which, while missing a couple things that Lacing has, is generally seen as better due to being 100% legal while still giving almost all the benefits.) Again, I'm the person who believes ''more choice=better'' so I'll tell you that I find it a good thing to up the limit/get rid of it and use more of an honor system with players instead.

[Ryu]

So lets turn the question arround. Which equipment do you want to keep out? The 250k¥ can easily be spend by RAW, so any new toys will substitute others.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Pain Editor is a big one, as well as some of the weapons and armor that any sensible LoneStar person would look at and go, "Yeah, no." I mean, some of the MGs are mentioned as being fairly common among mercenary units or things, so I could see LS at least checking up before they pissed someone off, but things like a Gauss rifle or heavy powered armor are kind of out.

[Ryu]

Then I suggest you ignore availability. Tell your players that you do not like pain editors, and that Security will react based on the kind of gear they bring.

[Aaron]

Personally, I like the Availability 12 limitation. It gives the players something to look forward to, and me something to play around with when offering payment to the team.

[Emperor Tippy]

Personally, I like the Availability 12 limitation. It gives the players something to look forward to, and me something to play around with when offering payment to the team.

I don't mind it for restricted and forbidden ware but it makes no damn sense for regular ware. Like the Cerebral Booster, you can buy a rating 2 one in char gen or a rating 3 one the first day in game (with the right contacts). And since its cultured ware you can't even resell it.

[ElFenrir]

I admit, I always had a bit of a different view with the whole ''stuff to look forward to'' thing. I found even with no cap, there are always toys one can't afford at the start that they can drool over in-game, and the like-and there is always the ''Growth with Karma'' and most of all ''Growth of Character and Personality'', all of which, IMO, is far more rewarding to look forward to than nixing someone because they want a very reasonable piece of Availability 14 or 16, or even higher equipment. But again, there is no wrong way to do this; just my little thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And Emperor: yeah, the ''totally legal pieces with too high Availability'' gets me, too. Another reason we dumped it. I do think the ''banning of certain pieces'' is a good way to go if you REALLY wanna axe pieces, though-and a decent method at that.

Personally, I will always say my favorite rule is the unwritten but time-honored rule of ''Don't Be a Douche When Making Your Character.''. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Seraph Kast]

Maybe break it up a bit. Unlimited for legal gear, 16R, 12F. That prevents a lot of the powerful military-level gear from popping up day one, but allows you to get more useful stuff, higher limits on certain magic and 'ware, etc.

[WeaverMount]

I think Ryu really nailed it. You don't real need a house rule. I'd just throw out availability all together. I'm assuming you already have an idea of what kinds of challenges you will be throwing at your players. Let them do whatever they want and think about how it would stack up against that, if you like it perfect, if not send send them back to the drawing board.
I'll sketch out my thoughts on the what I'd use as a bench mark. Keep in mind is how much rope you giving them to hang themselves. There are runs where hitting something with a rocket is a great move. Newbie runners will likely screw themselves from the heat they draw. Make sure the players are pro enough to handle the gear they get. That's the real issue. I'd be worried about consumables mostly: explosives, chemical weapons, and high grade ammo. These draw a lot of heat really should provoke a quick escalation in defenses. If Ares gets hit twice in the same area by a crew using full auto APDS they will step it up. The other thing to keep in mind about really good gear is that it can shut down a give threat level, making them no fun to play. If you approve rating 6 chem seals and a fat sack'o'neurostun the players can just gas there way through any indoor opposition that doesn't have drones and chem seals. That's a lot of situations. Same thing with stealth suits/drones. That insures first strike (and often as not an easy win) on a whole class of targets. Another angle is that players shouldn't be able to get the best gear in there specialy right out of the gate. does it really matter if the sam starts with with availability 16 FBA? not really the important thing is that they not start with the best armor in the setting. This is for 2 reasons. First characters should be able to get gear that extends there primary focus in play. Second it let's you trump them. If you are wearing milspec armor you crap yourseslf in the same way when you see that the response team is wearing it. No matter the power level the GM should have things that look and fell scary for sake of story. If you get that with printed material it feel more valid and less like just fielded an unstoppable plot hammer. Similar situation with foci. I'd keep rating 4 sustaining foci out of players reach at char gen. 4 is a big brake point in force. Mainly it beats all OR, and give max detection data, and 4 IPs. You let them start with that they will likely never want a new foci because the karma for a force 5 doesn't buy much more.

[Jaid]

Similar situation with foci. I'd keep rating 4 sustaining foci out of players reach at char gen. 4 is a big brake point in force. Mainly it beats all OR, and give max detection data, and 4 IPs. You let them start with that they will likely never want a new foci because the karma for a force 5 doesn't buy much more.

well, first off, the upper end of object resistance clearly shows 4+

secondly, you need 1 net hit for the spell to work, spells are weird and don't work like normal thresholds iirc =P so it's actually force 5 where sustaining focus overcomes OR 4.

[WeaverMount]

Many tables play the way I was describing even if it's wrong. And even if you drop the OR issue I still feel it's fair to call f4 a common break point