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> Loa Spirits, That hoodoo you do!
SinN
post May 26 2008, 12:37 AM
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Quick! I need the list of all Loa Spirits and there descriptions. Any help would be greatly apreciated. Thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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fistandantilus4....
post May 26 2008, 03:07 AM
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Here we go...
Agwe
[ Spoiler ]


Obatala
[ Spoiler ]


Ogoun
[ Spoiler ]




Damballah
[ Spoiler ]


Erzuile
[ Spoiler ]


Ghede (Papa Ghede)
[ Spoiler ]


Legba
[ Spoiler ]


Shango (Sango)
[ Spoiler ]
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fistandantilus4....
post May 26 2008, 03:18 AM
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There's what I could find for you with ten minutes of google, with a side of wikipedia. BTW, this really belongs in general Shadowrun, so I'm moving it over there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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hobgoblin
post May 26 2008, 01:51 PM
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ah, voodoo people. one reason to see hackers (or maybe hear in this sense), the other being a young angelina jolie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(the funny thing is that if people could get over the trippy graphics, there are some shout-outs to real life in there)
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Snow_Fox
post May 26 2008, 02:48 PM
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I've never seen Ghede listed as 'papa.' THat is more common with Legba, who is an old man.

The other name for Ghede is the more ominous and evil "Baron Samendi."
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hobgoblin
post May 26 2008, 04:19 PM
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something tells me that there are multiple variants of these beings.

or maybe some overlap in their spheres of influence, depending on who you speak to...

basically, this isnt a top down religion like the ones of middle-east heritage...

it got just as much in common with shamanism (and thats not a uniform system either) as it has with any sort of organized religion...
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Snow_Fox
post May 26 2008, 07:59 PM
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Yeah, but i was going for one of the better known/more ominous ones
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hobgoblin
post May 26 2008, 11:25 PM
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with his "priests" dressing in top hat and skull face paint, walking around graveyards to make recently dead rise from the grave?
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fistandantilus4....
post May 27 2008, 03:56 AM
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Ghede gets a lot of respect in RL. I've seen him referred to as "Papa" a number of times, but as Snow Fox said, that's usually seen more with Legba. Admittedly, this is a bit of a slap dash thrown together list for SinN who needed it "right away". I've researched a lot of voodoo because we've had games in New Orleans, and because we've happened to have a number of people play voodouns in our group. Honestly htough, most of my "research" has been cobbling together some sort of consensus from a whole lot of different websites and trying to find the peices that agree. Not sure that the internet is the best place to find out about a religion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My understaning of it is that there are three paths; the Rada, Petro, and the Red Eye, which is at it's most basic, the light, middle ground, and darker aspects. There's also voodoo, which is a religion, and hoodoo, which is the magical, "conjuring" aspect of the religion. The other aspects of the Loa, such as Papa Ghede/ Baron Samedi (Baron Saturday in French) are the Rada/ Red eye halves or aspects. As with most things, the presented shadowrun versions are a bit simplified. Thank God. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Of course, as I said, that's the "internet-fu" education crash course that I've given myself, so if anyone cares to enlighten or expound on what I think I know, feel free.
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Cheops
post May 27 2008, 02:45 PM
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You also have to contend with the fact that "Voodoo" is comprised of many different traditions all springing up from the same region of Western Africa. You need to pay very close attention to whether the person is talking about Haitian Voodoo, Obeah, Santeria, or whatever the Brazilian version was called.

I personally tend to use the Haitian Voodoo for the simple advantage that je peux parler un peu du Francais. At least in Haitian Voodoo the Loa are arranged into two groups the Rada and the Petro. The Rada are "cool" spirits and the Petro are "hot" spirits. Within those two groupings there are different families of Loa representing both metaphorical aspects and straight up ancestor worship. Ghede is not actually a single Loa but is the family name for a group of Loa that are psychopomps (transport spirits and wandering Hoodouns to the mystical realm of Guinea).

The bulk of Loa are going to be Kings and Heroes from the three Western African tribes that were brought over as slaves with some heroes and spiritual leaders from the New World thrown in. For example, one aspect of Ogoun, is that he reprensents the popular uprising of the people as embodied by Haitian Independence. So there would be a Ogoun Loa for the men and women who actually led the revolution and there is an Ogoun Loa that represents rebellion and revolution in general.
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Snow_Fox
post May 28 2008, 03:05 AM
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voudoun is usually from the french colonies- Haiti and Lousiana are the most common. It, RL, was a mix of barely remembered african faiths and the catholism imposed by the french slavers. Most ceremoneis start with legba being involked to open the gates to allow other lowe to 'visit.'

In those hostile envirnments the masters didn't care what the slaves were doing 'after hours' as long as the aped christianity on the sabbath. Which is why you find Voudoun in areas where there are swamps, but not healtier envirnments, like Canada. Santieria is the same sort of thing but in spanish volonies affected by the spainish views. The closest we get in the 'English' colonies are the Gullah of the outer banks of the Carolinas.

In college I was allowed to attend a ceremoney in Hartford along with a professor of mine who was friendly with them(I still think he was a follower but still won't admit it to me.) It was one of the most deeply disturbing things I've ever seen in my life.
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Cheops
post May 28 2008, 04:42 AM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ May 28 2008, 04:05 AM) *
In those hostile envirnments the masters didn't care what the slaves were doing 'after hours' as long as the aped christianity on the sabbath. Which is why you find Voudoun in areas where there are swamps, but not healtier envirnments, like Canada. Santieria is the same sort of thing but in spanish volonies affected by the spainish views. The closest we get in the 'English' colonies are the Gullah of the outer banks of the Carolinas.


I'm sure that if Canada also imported slaves from Western Africa you would damn well see Voodoo ceremonies in our "healthier" climate. However, since we only used Chinese you instead see a China town in every single major city in Canada. You'll also notice that most of the practice is confined to the Carribean and the Spanish Main. That's because those were the major ports of entry for the slave trade.

Economics is a far better descriptor of everything that happens in history than environment.
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Snow_Fox
post May 31 2008, 03:06 PM
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Canada did not have massive, regular outbreaks of yellow feaver and malaria. The chinese, while poorly treated, were not slaves and were able to maintain their culture. slave peoples were stripped of their culture. The point is that it was in areas that were hostile that white masters did not want to go into, so the lsaves were able to retain part of their culture. There were slaves in the United States until around 1865 but for the most part they were in areas where the whites could live (my example of the gullah showing the rare exception) as far as I know
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fistandantilus4....
post May 31 2008, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ May 27 2008, 10:05 PM) *
voudoun is usually from the french colonies- Haiti and Lousiana are the most common. It, RL, was a mix of barely remembered african faiths and the catholism imposed by the french slavers. Most ceremoneis start with legba being involked to open the gates to allow other lowe to 'visit.'

That's what I've seen of it as well. Most of the Loa are equivelant to some saint or another, Legba for example being equated to St Peter (Guardian of the Gates of Heaven type (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). They borrowed from Catholicism to cover their continuing practice of their older beliefs, and a lot of it became mixed.
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Snow_Fox
post Jun 1 2008, 08:58 PM
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exactly. the slaves were the young people who'd heard the tales but didn't have it committed down the way elders did. They got to the new world and tried to link up what they could remember being shown with the faith their masters' inflicted on them.
By comparrison my husband could probably remember the important parts of a passover sadre without the books but he'd not get the exact prayers right, and he's in his 40's.
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MaxHunter
post Jun 3 2008, 07:57 PM
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welll, where I live Santeira (or it's brazilian version: candomblé and umbanda) is one of the most important religions.

I have had the opportunity to visit a couple ceremonies here and in the Bahia zone in Brazil and they are quite "colourful"; sometimes including a couple practices "normal" western culture would find quite disturbing.

There has been much mixture of cultures and religions over here; the word in Spanish for that phenomenon is "sincretismo" I haven't a clue of the proper English vocable. The idea is that many of the saints and icons of christian religion represent loas of the African religion for its practicioners. Therefore, the slaves would go to a catholic church or light candles while apparently showing catholic devotion and were in fact celebrating their own faith.


Over time, the features of the saints and of the loas have blurred in one folkloric gestalt of superstition, faith and tradition. For example; it is still quite common nowadays to see images of Saint George slaying the Dragon in many houses in my country -particularly in some neighbourhoods- When you start asking, some people would say it is there because "it keeps bad luck away" -especially when the image is facing the door- without any reference to a particular faith, some people would say "Why? it's Saint George?" while only a fraction of those who have it around would say it actually represents OgĂşn.

So, of course, the list and attributes of loas over here would be different and it is very easy to find different interpretations of the faith, even among practicioners.

Cheers,

Max


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Moon-Hawk
post Jun 3 2008, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ May 27 2008, 11:05 PM) *
In college I was allowed to attend a ceremoney in Hartford along with a professor of mine who was friendly with them(I still think he was a follower but still won't admit it to me.) It was one of the most deeply disturbing things I've ever seen in my life.



QUOTE (MaxHunter @ Jun 3 2008, 03:57 PM) *
I have had the opportunity to visit a couple ceremonies here and in the Bahia zone in Brazil and they are quite "colourful"; sometimes including a couple practices "normal" western culture would find quite disturbing.


Alright you two, quit teasing and tell a story or two.
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nezumi
post Jun 3 2008, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (MaxHunter @ Jun 3 2008, 02:57 PM) *
the word in Spanish for that phenomenon is "sincretismo" I haven't a clue of the proper English vocable.


Perhaps not surprisingly, the English word is 'syncretism' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That said, really, please do share stories. I'm going to have a difficult time portraying these ceremonies in game without unreliable stories from anonymous.
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MaxHunter
post Jun 5 2008, 04:15 PM
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well, syncretism; it figures, right?

Quick story because I am at work right now; I have a cousin who is also a Santeria priest; He got married so he invited family to a ceremony. It took place in a big old house in a low-class neigbourhood in our home city. It wasn't his house or anyhting. We went there with my sister. On the outside the house was normal, on the inside it was a somewhat run-down old house which had been decorated with flowers. There were lots and lots of these cheap statues representing catholic saints, many of them in vivid colours; there were a couple of church-style wooden altars with fresh food; rice, corn, wine, bread, tobacco. There was this intense, sweet smell of jasmine, incense, food and cigars which just took over you the moment you went inside. I saw a couple old people I had never seen before and nobody knew by name; one of them was a very old black man with white hair, in a very old tux who was obviously drunk and chain-smoked smelly tobacco cigarrettes. People sat in chairs forming like a circle and there was this spiritsm "seanse" atmosphere, as if people were getting ready for something.

Then chanting, loud chanting like in a Harlem church, and some drums music, and prayers. My cousin showed up from somewhere inside the house, dressed completely in white, with his newlywed wife in hand. He started praying loud and people answered in unison. They kind of knew what to say, to me it sounded similar to the litanies to all-saints that are prayed in Easter in catholic ceremonies. There was some kind of ritual I don't remember clearly now, like they gave each other presents and called upon the saints to bless the couple, then the singing and praying continued.

Somehow, the rythm and pace of the ceremony was increasing. People passed over drinks and smokes; somebody got up and clapped, some other people were mumbling. Some people were drinking heavily at the moment, there was a lot of energy in the air and the overall mood was quite joyous, but it was also a little too wild, to my senses, I don't know If I can transmit the feeling properly.

Then the old man got to the center and danced, then he said some things to my cousin and his wife. Then my cousin started walking around like in a trance, he called some people by name and greeted them as if he didn't know them. He talked directly to one or two about many things that were not exactly public knowledge: like; "I know X has cancer, and you are very tired, let's pray together she will get better" And people prayed and some people danced.

And there was this little girl, fourteen years-old maybe, she was dancing one moment and then she started having convulsions and some people tried to see what had happened to her and then she got up, so serene and peaceful and she went and greeted my cousin and his wife and wished them good luck and many children, like she was much older; then everybody joined in her prayer. The ceremony kept on for a short while, until it somehow ended.
It felt like someone had pulled a plug we could not see and the old man returned to his chair, the little girl went to her mother and fell asleep. My cousin said a blessing, not quite different to the ones catholic priests say when mass has ended, then people started to say goodbye and return home, save for a couple or two who stayed to chat.

It was quite colourful, mind you, and I didn't exactly feel comfortable throughout the whole ceremony, anyway I found the experience quite interesting. I hope I could share the experience well enough for DS curiosity; now I have to go back to some -less interesting- statistics.

Cheers

Max

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nezumi
post Jun 5 2008, 06:09 PM
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Wow... really, absolutely fascinating. Thank you for sharing. A few short paragraphs, but quite educational.
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mattness pl
post Jun 7 2008, 06:12 PM
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Thanks to this topic I found interesting link between voodouns & Poland:

[ Spoiler ]
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