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> Stealing Cars (SR4), GTA in the shadows.
gilorian
post Jun 2 2008, 03:50 PM
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I want to make a runner who can do a little mechanic work on the side.
As well as boost cars when things get a little tight.

I have a general grasp of the SR world, but SR4 is very new to me.

I'm having trouble finding any info on this most ancient of criminal pursuits in the Shadowrun context.
I would much prefer stealing parked cars, I would like to avoid carjacking.

What am I going to need? What skills are appropriate?
What sort of locks and countermeasures can I expect to encounter?
I would especially appreciate any link back to the SR4 sourcebooks or official material to give myself and my DM a useful reference.

I'm having trouble just confirming how the cars are secured unfortunately, although I assume maglocks.

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Blade
post Jun 2 2008, 04:03 PM
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I'd expect something like NFC/short range RFID from the user's commlink: when someone wants to open the car, an encrypted "question" is sent to the commlink. The user's commlink decrypts it and send an encrypted "answer". Both the encryption and the "answer" are something only the commlink and the car are supposed to know.
There might be another check when trying to start the car or drive it.

The way I see it, there are two ways to break security:
1) Send forged signal. You'll need to decrypt the signals, and spoof the legitimate signal.
2) Exploit the car's node, get an administrator access, or at least a super-user to be able to drive (user can only switch the radio channels, raise/lower windows and do other stuff like that).

Also don't forget to turn off the various RFID chips built inside the car (each part probably has one) as well as the car's "transponder".

But as far as I know there aren't any official guidelines about carjacking, so your mileage may vary.

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Drace
post Jun 2 2008, 06:48 PM
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A major thing I see as a problem with carjacking, would have to be anti-theft devices. Seeing as how most people don't care about lethality, and alot about legality expect alot of lethal to near lethal countermeasures

From SR novels/sourcebooks that I can remember (No quotes sorry, at work) and possible way to circumvent
-Electric systems that fry anything touching the car (Range from stun - kill)
>>Maybe rubber based gloves or a system to ground the current
-the CLUB (simple, but like regular old school locks, who would expect it)
>>Hacksaw, most of the B&E gear in the book
-hidden blades (attempting to open door causes a mono knife to come out the handle if done wrong or no code/broken into)
>>No clue how to get past this one

I have a copy of Arsenal at home, and there is a huge vehicle section, when I get a chance I will finally read it and if no one else does first, post anything I can find from it, unless you already have it.
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deek
post Jun 2 2008, 07:09 PM
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The way I see it, you could go either a hardware or software route on this.

With hardware, you physically disable/override the computer, needing either your own patchwork computer module or some sort of jamming device coupled with knowledge to shut off any audible alarms (if they still exist). You should be able to put together (with your GM) some basic "how-to" on how this would be accomplished all outside the matrix.

With software, its really just hacking the car's node, getting admin access and and getting on your way. Again, run it by your GM so you have an idea of the way he would run the hack.

Either way, you end up with a vehicle and the need to "erase" and signatures on the stolen goods. This may be as simple as giving it to your chop shop/fixer/etc and not worrying about it or as complicated as doing all that work yourself, including replacing all RFIDs, scratching off any serial numbers and deleting/altering public/private records of the vehicle on the matrix.
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WeaverMount
post Jun 2 2008, 07:43 PM
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First I'd ask your GM what they think it takes to steal a car, and make sure you can jump through those hoops easily.

IMO a car thief is basically just a hacker. Most cars will have a wireless node. Also you should be about to get in via the grid-guild "port". Getting away with the theft without the car reporting you pretty much requires hacking skills.

Another important note is to make sure you can actually turn your stolen car into cash. That will take contacts, skills, and work. Again I'd ask my GM what they though that would take and make sure it's on my sheet
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Bashfull
post Jun 2 2008, 08:06 PM
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I can't think of a car theft, but two incidents from SR fiction spring to mind. In one, a heroine essentially waits for her ex-boyfriend to by-pass his enhanced bike security (which, I think, was a pin-immobiliser) to stick a gun in his back. In another, a ganger takes an old (Twentieth Century) car and drives it through Sioux country. I thought the latter rather implausible: little vehicle security and a teenager who can, apparently, drive 50 year old cars. All the same, is serves as something of a benchmark.

That said, all this fiction occurred before wirelessness. Even now we have keyless entry and ignition in some vehicles. Blades' suggestions seem quite reasonable. A computer hack or a hardware override seem in keeping. That, or stealing the relevent commlink.
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BishopMcQ
post Jun 2 2008, 08:15 PM
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In some regards, it may be easier to steal a shadowrunner's car than a normal one. Yes the security will be higher, but once you are in--the car won't alert LS and constantly scream for help. Kill a few runners and take their stuff.
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masterofm
post Jun 2 2008, 08:18 PM
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B&E skills, and hacking. Hack to get admin, and drive car as quickly as you can into an anti wifi painted area. Erase all of the tags on the car and give it a new ID, and take it over to the ol' chop shop. Also be wary that the chop shop is not being kept tabs on by LS. Also don't bone your friendly chop shop or you will never find work in that area again.
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Starmage21
post Jun 2 2008, 08:56 PM
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there was a thread about this already called somthing like "triangle buttoning cars" or somethin. Of course, because I cant remember the name of it, so i cant do a search for it ><
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Ryu
post Jun 2 2008, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Jun 2 2008, 10:15 PM) *
In some regards, it may be easier to steal a shadowrunner's car than a normal one. Yes the security will be higher, but once you are in--the car won't alert LS and constantly scream for help. Kill a few runners and take their stuff.


My chars told me to tell you to tell your chars to "watch it". But yes.
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Cthulhudreams
post Jun 3 2008, 12:07 AM
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The account that lets you drive around in SR4 clearly isn't administrator level. It probably has to be user, assuming you think that B2B screamers and remote disabling exists.

Because if those exist, then the security account (what lone star would use) has to be able to override the 'drive around' account - and then logically the administrator account is used by something else. If you have to hack in as admin, then you can just disable the B2B screamers and remote disabling function, so they don't even exist.

I'd recommend administrator be the account that controls all the 'hidden extra features' and authorized dealers can use to reflash the ECU, access the drive train records, or officially 'rebirth' the car as a 'GM certified second hand car' - and if it notices someone hacking in as admin (not otherwise, GM doesn't want to know every time a car gets stolen, but will dial lone star!), it will call up GM and say someone is doing an illegal rebirthing.

So your character probably needs hacking skills and mechanical skills due to the fusion of technology.
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DocTaotsu
post Jun 3 2008, 01:10 AM
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On the issue of lethal vs. non-lethal.

Would you really want a lethal countermeasure system on your car? If you do than I have a good hacker buddy who would just love to make a few modifications to your commlinks PAN.

Hope you weren't overly attached to you fingers.

But seriously, having a car that fries you if you don't give the proper pass/clearance sounds like something that would happen pretty rarely. No one wants to have a car that rips their face off because their commlink got a little scrabbled when they walked through an AR Spam zone.

Which of course leads to "Doc's Solution to Everything": Freeze foam the fuckers.
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WeaverMount
post Jun 3 2008, 01:32 AM
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Yeah another angle on the lethal defense systems, you know things are likely to have a mechanical failure? In a car crash.
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masterofm
post Jun 3 2008, 02:24 AM
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Actually I would like to make my car entirely out of explosive rockets, and use rocket fuel to power my rocket engines. Who would ever want to steal a car like that? Well besides someone with a rocket launcher.
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WearzManySkins
post Jun 3 2008, 02:38 AM
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LOL well do not try with some Shadow Runners, like a ork demo expert, sit on the bike arms, a explosive charge, 3 seconds to use a mechanical series of switches to enter the code or boom. Explosive charge is not wireless linked or wired linked, even with the security system disengaged the charge will need the code entered.

WMS
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DocTaotsu
post Jun 3 2008, 03:11 AM
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All I can say:
Spectacularly lethal anti-theft system=Glitch/Critical Glitch Fodder and not just in the obvious way.

GM: The distracted wage slave walks down the street and starts tugging on the door of your car... obviously he has mistaken it for his own car which looks almost identical to yours...

Another favorite:
Player: Okay! The driver unconcious but we're still in the fight! Lets stuff him into his car and lets get out of there.
GM: Orly?
Player: Yeah! We yank open the door an-
GM: BOOOOOOM!!!! Resist 20P damage! MOOHOOHAHAHA! Suck it rigger scum!

Well maybe not that bad but still (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I will admit that the "knives shoot out of the door handles" is very shadowrun... like having a gun in your face or wearing sunglasses at night.
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Jaid
post Jun 3 2008, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jun 2 2008, 09:38 PM) *
LOL well do not try with some Shadow Runners, like a ork demo expert, sit on the bike arms, a explosive charge, 3 seconds to use a mechanical series of switches to enter the code or boom. Explosive charge is not wireless linked or wired linked, even with the security system disengaged the charge will need the code entered.

WMS

and then one day while he's hurrying to punch in the code he hits two numbers at once, gets it wrong, and blows up. i believe that's the point people are trying to make when they say you don't really want a lethal anti-theft system.

(that and the fact that leaving your keys/commlink in the car suddenly gets a lot more awkward and expensive when you have to hire a decker to crack the glacial IC in your car, after which you will probably be wanting to add in the expense of wiping your car's node and rebuilding it from scratch, for which you need to find a decker you can trust, and also add in that you just made a complete fool of yourself to the shadow community... or at least the decker community. or did you think that decker wasn't gonna tell everyone about the idiot sammy who locked himself out of his car and had to hire a shadowrunner just to get in...)
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DocTaotsu
post Jun 3 2008, 03:29 AM
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Actually, that sounds like an awesome idea for a run (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mr J: I need you to breach the zero zone around my uhm... car. I uhm... left my keys in the ignition.
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Sweaty Hippo
post Jun 3 2008, 03:33 AM
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A cheap care that is 20+ years old will probably have a bad/outdated security system which can easily be hacked by a rigger. A limousine owned by a rich Mr. Johnson, however, will have security systems that are state-of-the-art, not to mention bodyguards/hired goons.

Once again, it comes down to money.
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masterofm
post Jun 3 2008, 04:32 AM
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The problem with SR4 and running around stealing cars is that everyone is spying on everyone. Video, cameras, drones, and just about anything else when it comes to spy cams. The problem is, is that there is just too much surveillance everywhere, and even if you deal with a few of them there is no way to be certain someone else didn't happen to catch you. To boost cars and get away with it you need to make that car basically vanish. Does LS have flyspys, and other small tech just waaaaay up in the sky not transmitting, or broadcasting just searching the streets for problems? Does someone have a camera that will contact LS the minute their car goes missing when they are asleep in their home? Are there multiple camera's? What about the neighborhood watch? To walk up to a car and take it does not mean in any way that you are in the clear. You need to be certain that no one saw you, and in an age where everyone is looking it's pretty hard to get away with stuff like this.

Most likely you will need a crew of people to pull off swiping vehicles. You need a pretty potent mage (at least potent enough to vanish a car from most sensors,) a hacker/rigger, and a driver just in case anything goes wrong. That is the least amount of people I can think you will need to pull off stealing a car in the SR4 universe. If you went and hacked a car w/o really covering your bases then there will be a very high chance that someone will be making a call to LS about a stolen car.... if LS doesn't know already.
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WeaverMount
post Jun 3 2008, 04:40 AM
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If you want to go the mage angle you could just hit the car with a possession mage, and an area jammer + a couple of stealth spells. If they are a logic tradition they could likely clean and chop the car themselves, and if they are a charisma tradition they could likely move it themselves.
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masterofm
post Jun 3 2008, 04:47 AM
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True, but you would need the hacker to at least silence the car's alarms. Spirits might be able to drive the car, but I think they have problems with deactivating the squealing horn.... well unless they can throw in some illusion spells as well. Then again I think the more specialized a mage would need to be to jack cars, the less likely there is going to be one considering mages are less then 1% of the population.
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WeaverMount
post Jun 3 2008, 04:50 AM
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imp invisibility, silence, jammer. Anything that doesn't cover?
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Earlydawn
post Jun 3 2008, 04:55 AM
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Hacking is both prevalent and visible in 2070, so I can't see cars being secured with anything other then a mechanical key. Arsenal makes cars seem bad enough with mid-drive remote driver swapping, much less letting any punk kid with a comlink jack one.
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masterofm
post Jun 3 2008, 04:56 AM
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Another mage peeking on the astral? As for the physical yeah thats pretty much all you would need. Also would conceal work just as well muffling the blaring noise the car would make? I mean silence might not be needed if it could work in that way too. I mean I would assume so, since it gives you a penalty to actually detect whatever is concealed when using a perception check. I mean people make noise when they walk around. Does a sound filter "footsteps" just instantly make conceal useless? Ack rules to mechanics overload......
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