How do non-awakend deal with spirits?, Is there something like magical bullets? Options

[Nefacio]

All AP is applicable to Spirits except for the AP bonus that is accumulated through automatic fire (ie. burst or full auto).

but this works the same as for regular life beings targets, right? I mean is not cummulative

[Nefacio]

just a bump to the post cause now I really want to clean this doubt.

Apreciate if anyone can answer

[Jackstand]

Yeah. Autofire never counts towards whether or not an attack beats the armor rating of its target. Against people, it can just mean that you're doing a hell of a lot of stun.

[Fortune]

As Jackstand said, autofire doesn't figure into the actual DV/Armor Rating comparisons for calculating whether a metahuman target takes Physical or Stun damage.

[Zak]

As Jackstand said, autofire doesn't figure into the actual DV/Armor Rating comparisons for calculating whether a metahuman target takes Physical or Stun damage.

Does this mean a vehicle with 8 armor is immune to LMG fire?

[Fortune]

Not necessarily. 'Hits' on the Attacker's test still increase the damage output of the weapon, which adds to the base DV (and is also factored in when comparing DV to Armor), and any AP attributed to either weapon or ammunition would also apply.

[Nefacio]

forgive my ignorance towards the subject, but I just wanna ask if AP from weapons and ammo is cumulative. The whole autofire thing just confused me more xD

Again sorry

[Dr Funfrock]

I just wanna ask if AP from weapons and ammo is cumulative.

Yes, it is.

Edit - With some exceptions; Stick-N-Shock, for example.

[JoelHalpern]

forgive my ignorance towards the subject, but I just wanna ask if AP from weapons and ammo is cumulative. The whole autofire thing just confused me more xD

Again sorry

Yes, the AP from weapons and ammo is cummulative.
(except maybe stick-n-shock. Then the -1/2 may replace the weapons normal modifier. Or maybe not?)

So, for purposes of determining if you penetrate armor, you reduce the armor by the weapon and armor AP. Then you compare the weapon base damage, plus any called shot, plus net hits to that armor. If that damage is more than the armor, you penetrated the armor. Now add the damage from auto-fire, if any.

Yours,
Joel Halpern

[bishop186]

AP from weapons and ammo is indeed cumulative.

[Nefacio]

Thx, appreciated

[AngelisStorm]

It's just to bad there aren't any dual natured metals out there. Wouldn't that then qualify for bypassing the immunity to normal weapons?

(And I'm glad someone brought up Caster Rounds from Outlaw Star. Hideously expensive they would be to make, but way cool.)

Also on the called shots for extra damage topic, alot of philosophies consider that anything sentient has a center for that sentience. So depending on the GM, it would be a "shoot for the eyes/head" situation, or whatever looks important.

I wonder if you could make a substance that hurts spirits. Like the magical... compounds I think their called, in Street Magic?

Speaking of though, that's what my mundanes do sometimes if they have to deal with spirits. Find a magical compound that grants an offensive attack mode.

[Fortune]

The whole autofire thing just confused me more

Yeah, sorry about that. In trying to avoid causing any miunderstandings, I unintentionally caused confusion in the process by using the wrong term. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

[Kyoto Kid]

...a PJSS with EXEX is pretty good for up to force 5 (10P -2AP). Another good choice would be an Ares Desert Strike with EXEX 9P -4AP). Both available at Chargen.

[Dworkin_13]

Would wooden bullets work against spirits any better than metal?
Aka Wooden Bullets from Van Helsing...

[AngelisStorm]

Ooo, wood can be dual natured.

But doesn't something have to be alive to be dual natured? Otherwise the upkeep for awakened plant life wouldn't be so bad. (Just pack the dead moss in with the wall insulation.)

[Ramorta]

...a PJSS with EXEX is pretty good for up to force 5 (10P -2AP). Another good choice would be an Ares Desert Strike with EXEX 9P -4AP). Both available at Chargen.

Wouldn't the PJSS with EXEX be 11P -3 AP or 12P -3AP if both barrels are fired?

[Kyoto Kid]

...but both barrels would count as burst fire which like Autofire would not give any advantage. Besides if it didn't go poof on the first shot you still have another.

[Dr Funfrock]

Wouldn't the PJSS with EXEX be 11P -3 AP or 12P -3AP if both barrels are fired?

EXEX is only +1 DV, -1 AP. See the Errata.

[Blade]

FAB is dual natured and small enough to fit inside a bullet. But I don't know what happens if a spirit is hit with a small high velocity dual natured projectile.

[Jackstand]

I don't think that it should make a difference, really. Astral perception doesn't let an adept bypass the immunity to normal weapons without killing hands, right?

[Apathy]

Per canon, I believe that the only way to make a 'magic bullet' would be using anchoring and a bunch of karma. And that won't really make the bullet itself damaging, it'll just be the vehicle that delivers the f9 'Slay Spirit' spell with linked 'Detect Spirit' trigger. So in order to make that work, you'd have to:

1. Learn Slay Spirit and Detect Spirit
2. Learn the Anchoring metamagic
3. Invest a bunch of karma on a dual spell anchored into the bullet.
4. Be willing to give the anchored spells (which provide a material link to the original mage) to your mundane friend.
5. Suffer drain (even if you're miles away) at the moment that the spell actually goes off.
6. Being astrally active, the anchored spell will still set off alarm wards whenever you cross them, and could potentially be forcibly deactivated if passing through a strong enough ward.
7. Also, the anchor won't discriminate between friendly, enemy, and neutral spirits. So when the watcher approaches you to pass on a message from your mage friend, or to investigate why a mundane is carrying an anchoring focus, he'll go *poof* and the spell will be used up.
8. What's worse, the mundane won't even know that the spell suffered premature detonation (snicker), and will be surprised when it doesn't work and he needs it to.

[crizh]

It's just to bad there aren't any dual natured metals out there. Wouldn't that then qualify for bypassing the immunity to normal weapons?

I liked the Possession idea. Prepare a slug as a vessel, have a Houngan (or equivalent) summon a Force 1 spirit to Possess the slug and pay a single point of Karma to bind it for a Year and a Day. Voila, Dual-Natured metal!

I'm actually a bit concerned about that idea because I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work and Shadowrun requires that it shouldn't.

(Yeah, yeah, wards, yadda, yadda, yadda... Whatever...)


Hmmm, you could even do several and have them speak with ridiculous Mexican accents....

[K2that'sit]

I liked the Possession idea. Prepare a slug as a vessel, have a Houngan (or equivalent) summon a Force 1 spirit to Possess the slug and pay a single point of Karma to bind it for a Year and a Day. Voila, Dual-Natured metal!

I'm actually a bit concerned about that idea because I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work and Shadowrun requires that it shouldn't.

(Yeah, yeah, wards, yadda, yadda, yadda... Whatever...)


Hmmm, you could even do several and have them speak with ridiculous Mexican accents....

Thanks im glad someone saw my post it seems to answer the problem about how too deal with spirits.

[Apathy]

Thanks im glad someone saw my post it seems to answer the problem about how too deal with spirits.

I don't believe that [by canon, at least] this really addresses your issue. I've never read that there's anything like inertia or transfer of kinetic energy on the astral, or even any indication that astral spirits have mass. I've never read that running into/through a ward at fast movement speeds does anything more than forcing through the ward at walking speed. At best, the bullets would (momentarily) get your projectile spirits close enough to melee with the target spirit, which doesn't really do anything useful if they're only force 1.

Edit: There have been a multitude of other threads discussing people wanting to make magical ranged weapons which should be easy to find with a quick search. I believe all these ideas have been discussed and shot down before.

Edit#2: Two previous threads that popped up when I searched on "astral bullet". Both appear to be pertinent to your question.
Improvised Astral Weapons
guns from astral space