Military Grade Armor and enhacements, Arsenal Question Options

[Nefacio]

Hi all,
I have a few question regarding this particular armor and its functionalitys.

1- about possible enhacements, on page 51 of Arsenal are described several enhacements that can be made to this type of armor. However I couldnt find a price list for some of them and its capacity rate

2- Some of this enhacements are to my point of view, simply broken. Example "strenght upgrade", doesnt affect ur maximum augmented attribute? O.o Give +1 to STR per rating, ok maximum rating will be?

3- on the BBB the maximum armor rate u can buy is 10, here is the possibility beyond that, amost doubled for heavy military, I wonder, isnt it too much? and another thing, encumbrance apply from BODY x3 instead fo x2. Dunno but I think this types of armors are way heavier technology, more like a radical change upon defenders capabilities. Opinions?

4- Blacksmithing them, material cost and availabilitys, one of my group members want to make it, any hints or ideas on how to deal with it?

Regards, thx

[Stahlseele]

as for 1, i think it's supposed to be the same as cyber-limb upgrades . . as for the others? i'm drawing a blank x.x

[Muspellsheimr]

1) Missing tables in the book can be found in the compiled tables in the back.
2) See #1. None of them are broken. I would also point out that for everyone except heavy-hitting melee combatants, Strength is easily the least important attribute. Even for melee characters, it is not high on the list.
3) Read the Customized Armor rules at the beginning of the section. Read the description of Military-Grade armor. Check the costs & availability. There is no problem here.
4) Standard rules for manufacturing equipment your self apply. I believe it is half the cost of purchasing it, parts have the same availability as the finished item, you must have blueprints/plans, and it takes time. Rules are in SR4

[Nefacio]

1) Missing tables in the book can be found in the compiled tables in the back.
2) See #1. None of them are broken. I would also point out that for everyone except heavy-hitting melee combatants, Strength is easily the least important attribute. Even for melee characters, it is not high on the list.
3) Read the Customized Armor rules at the beginning of the section. Read the description of Military-Grade armor. Check the costs & availability. There is no problem here.
4) Standard rules for manufacturing equipment your self apply. I believe it is half the cost of purchasing it, parts have the same availability as the finished item, you must have blueprints/plans, and it takes time. Rules are in SR4

Really appreciate #1 Thx a lot.

Concerning #2 if strenght is or not an important attribute, yes it is only for the melee combatants but this happen to be the most deadly attack with a single target, specially against someone who is not skilled in melee combat, so giving so easily 3 more points to DV its kind of good.

#3 My thought was place on numbers, imagine a troll with Body 10-12 with a heavy military grade armor, 28-30 DP to soak, its harder to take it down than a heavy war tank. As one of my fellow group member use to say "if it wouldnt be for mages, Trolls will rule this world" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

#4 I investigate that, thx. But I was more hoping for an actual idea or hint on what material it uses, (rare sintetic fiber of some kind produced only on ..., etc. Maybe some other group already passed through this and have some ideas.

[Muspellsheimr]

Melee attacks are good, but with the exception of heavily specialized Adepts, are far from the most powerful in the game. Specifically, sniper attacks, chemtech, nanotech, & magic are far more damaging. Once you start looking at heavy vehicle weapons, there is no comparison at all.

Strength Enhancement armor modification can increase your melee damage by at most 2. Agility & Reaction are still far more important to a melee character.

A troll specialized in soaking damage can be on-par with a tank, and usually is sevearly lacking in offense. 6 points of armor is not a huge difference in such a character, and through mundane methods, I can still easily bring such a character down.

[Nefacio]

Melee attacks are good, but with the exception of heavily specialized Adepts, are far from the most powerful in the game. Specifically, sniper attacks, chemtech, nanotech, & magic are far more damaging. Once you start looking at heavy vehicle weapons, there is no comparison at all.

Strength Enhancement armor modification can increase your melee damage by at most 2. Agility & Reaction are still far more important to a melee character.

A troll specialized in soaking damage can be on-par with a tank, and usually is sevearly lacking in offense. 6 points of armor is not a huge difference in such a character, and through mundane methods, I can still easily bring such a character down.

It can increase up to 3 according to arsenal, adepts can be really good but takes time, on a new character a full implanted troll or a mystic adept can do more damage on melee.

u dont have to give up offensive power in order to have 10-12 of Body and that and the armor will give almost a 30 DP to soak damage.

Dunno I find that enhacement a good way to power damage, I know is not easy to get and I know it wont make a huge difference but still is really profitable, and when coming on scene a melee attack is a thing to be affraid of.

by mundane methods do u mean non-magic ones? can u give me a couple of them?

[Muspellsheimr]

• Sniper Called Shots
• Full-Auto Narrow Bursts (especially with High-Velocity or Minigun weapons)
• Chemtech (Against anything but a Full Chemical Seal)
• Energy Weapons, most notably Stick-N-Shock
• Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle (assuming House-Rule to half armor before applying AP, as it should!)

I am sure I can find some more if I bother to look.

10-12 Body, even on a Troll, eats a large chunk of Build Points. It is still possible to be a capable, heavy-hitting combatant with such scores, but it severely narrows your focus to do so.

[Nefacio]

• Sniper Called Shots
• Full-Auto Narrow Bursts (especially with High-Velocity or Minigun weapons)
• Chemtech (Against anything but a Full Chemical Seal)
• Energy Weapons, most notably Stick-N-Shock
• Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle (assuming House-Rule to half armor before applying AP, as it should!)

I am sure I can find some more if I bother to look.

10-12 Body, even on a Troll, eats a large chunk of Build Points. It is still possible to be a capable, heavy-hitting combatant with such scores, but it severely narrows your focus to do so.

I meant to hit that score with implants not only BP

sniper is not really mundane, it must be a given situation, ofc there are ways to assasinate it however it unlikely to do it on a single shot, ritualing mana bolt is better one (ofc not mundane at all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Full Auto narrow burst will with a good DP to the job, but it has to be a good one, a single net hit wont take it down

chemtech can be countered with an enhacement of the armor.

Anyway, most if this will take down a war tank more easily.

Im not saying its unbeatable but cmon, it will take lot of effort and resources to do so w/o using magic.

[Malicant]

• Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle (assuming House-Rule to half armor before applying AP, as it should!)

No, it shouldn't.

[Jaid]

I meant to hit that score with implants not only BP

sniper is not really mundane, it must be a given situation, ofc there are ways to assasinate it however it unlikely to do it on a single shot, ritualing mana bolt is better one (ofc not mundane at all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Full Auto narrow burst will with a good DP to the job, but it has to be a good one, a single net hit wont take it down

chemtech can be countered with an enhacement of the armor.

Anyway, most if this will take down a war tank more easily.

Im not saying its unbeatable but cmon, it will take lot of effort and resources to do so w/o using magic.

there aren't any enhancements to body other than possibly drugs, and adept powers. there are things that add to body for specific purposes (damage resist tests, in particular) but since maximum armor is calculated off of body (not your body + damage resisting 'ware) they don't help with wearing more armor.

a sniper *is* mundane. if the sniper knows where mr supersoaking troll likes to be, he just sits there and waits. and then the troll dies.

a full auto burst won't kill the troll. it will probably only inflict stun damage, in fact. but the troll will not be too far off of getting knocked out, and from there it's not hard to finish the job.

chemical seals can be broken. once that has happened, it isn't worth much.

and several of those things won't do much at all to a war tank, because the war tank ignores stun damage, the troll does not.

[Drogos]

And what's wrong with it being hard to kill the huge body troll with the extremely expensive milspec armor (don't forget to add the 125% cost increase on the armor due to the fact it is sized for a troll vs. a normal sized metahuman)??? I mean really, the player or NPC sunk somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 BP and a couple 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to be able so suck up all incoming fire. Even with a Pain Editor, eventually the stun damage is going to kill the Troll. And with a DP of 30 they are on average getting 10 hits. That's massive, but they sunk over a quarter of the starting character BP into their ability, so why rob them of that? And automatic weapon fire is an answer to most problems in the SR universe....as are explosives. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mordinvan]

And automatic weapon fire is an answer to most problems in the SR universe....as are explosives. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

They can also subsitute for many important skills, like negotiation, and lock picking if properly applied too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

also don't forget: Milspec Stuff is supposed to be over the top ultra rare cool drop O.o

[Mordinvan]

also don't forget: Milspec Stuff is supposed to be over the top ultra rare cool drop O.o

Ya, I'm pretty sure its a purple.

[Dumori]

Ya, I'm pretty sure its a purple.

No Mill spec is gold.

[Nefacio]

mmh Im lost now, whats all this color talk about ?
gold, purlpe, etc.

[Muspellsheimr]

Might even qualify as a Unique item.

[Fortune]

there aren't any enhancements to body other than possibly drugs, and adept powers.

Suprathyroid Gland. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

mmh Im lost now, whats all this color talk about ?
gold, purlpe, etc.

a jab at the MMORPG WOW and others which i more or less started *g*

[Stahlseele]

Suprathyroid Gland. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

and spells