Secret Services...others than FBI, Anyone already made up some? Options

[Iota]

Hi all!

Today there are a lot of different secret services agencies covering the various fields of espionage, security matters and other stuff.

In the SR 4 rules so far only the FBI is covered, but I was wondering whether there still would be some other secret service agencies.

Since there are a bunch of people out there doing a lot of great work improving the sixth world with their own stuff, I wanted to ask if anyone already had some ideas on this topic.

[CanRay]

Well, there's "No Such Agency". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And, IIRC, the Department of Water and Wastewater, "DWW", has special teams for dealing with issues in the sewers... Which have gotten much worse after Magic came back...

[nezumi]

Good catch on the DWW. They were involved one of the novels (my first introduction to Shadowrun, actually).

In the US, we currently have the NSA, FBI, CIA, Secret Service, DOD branches and DHS all involved in what you might consider 'spying' or intelligence gathering. I expect that the corporations have also all invested themselves in some degree or another into the business, both contracting out to government, and for corporate purposes (keep in mind, like all other lines of business, government operates very different from corporate, even if you're just a contractor). Corporate Court most likely has one as well, for what it's worth.

[vladski]

Hi all!

Today there are a lot of different secret services agencies covering the various fields of espionage, security matters and other stuff.

In the SR 4 rules so far only the FBI is covered, but I was wondering whether there still would be some other secret service agencies.

Since there are a bunch of people out there doing a lot of great work improving the sixth world with their own stuff, I wanted to ask if anyone already had some ideas on this topic.

While it's not exactly "canon" per se, the 2006 Gencon Tournament "Third Law" (sponsored by the kind folks that produce SR) featured runners composed of several UCAS agencies, including:
CIA
FBI
ATF
Federal Marshals
Homeland Security

The mission was a joint deal seeking out a terrorist.

In my own world, my players are Federal Marshals that were hired from the ranks of Lonestar to make up a special task force. Their commander is the character I played in that tourney, Marshal Nelson ("I am NOT a field agent!") who was assigned his own task squad about a year after the timeline of the adventure ended.

Vlad

[nezumi]

(grr.. post got stuck in the tubes...)

I'm really wondering what ATF is up to in 2050. In 2008, they mostly harass legitimate gun vendors. However, seeing as the illicit gun trade isn't just flourishing, but seems to be generally encouraged, I don't think they're into that any more. They won't be heading into the barrens to shut down any illegal stills either, although they could be active in combating BTLs. Regardless, makes me think either they've completely reinvented themselves again (certainly not unheard of), or they disappeared with the creation of the UCAS and were never revived. I won't be shedding any tears for them.

Secret Service was originally formed to deal with counterfeit currency. They were part of Department of Treasury until 2003. Now they're part of DHS and have mostly dropped the whole counterfeiting gig. I'm sure, however, there's a special division of people who deal with counterfeiting, especially counterfeiting SINs and electronic bank information. It would have to be a branch of hackers with lots of cop thugs at their beck and call. Kinda scary, now that I think about it.

[Wesley Street]

SOMEBODY's gotta harass those legitimate gun vendors. And who is going to control unregulated booze and tobacco if not the ATF? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I may be wrong about this but I believe the Lone Star Sourcebook stated that the ATF, along with the DEA, was purchased from the UCAS government by Lone Star.

One of the most (in)famous corporate intelligence agents were the Seraphim, under Cross Applied Technologies. But since Cross is either gone or greatly reduced in scale with the death of its CEO and an aggressive take-over by arch-rival Ares Macro, I don't know what the final fate of the Seraphim would be.

If the USSS is part of the DHS now who handles counterfeiting?

[Drogos]

I have the Seraphim infiltrating Ares and the leaders defecting to Horizon to continue their war against Damien Knight (the devil). Knight believes he is getting control of the information database and the spy network with his aquisitions, but he is in for a rude awakening in a handful of years. But that is just my storyline for them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Wesley Street]

Ex-Seraphim would make for a most excellent runner backstory.

There's a listing of civilian government agencies working in Seattle in Runner Havens but unfortunately I don't have my copy on me at the moment. I'd assume Joint Task Force Seattle would have an Army HUMINT and SIGINT unit attached to it.

[nezumi]

Secret Service still does counterfeiting, it's just not their number 1 priority (#1 is protecting the prez, obviously).

[hyzmarca]

Secret Service still does counterfeiting, it's just not their number 1 priority (#1 is protecting the prez, obviously).

Which is funny considering the number of times that Presidents have survived only due to incompetent assassins compared to the number of assasination attempts that they actually stopped. (10 assasination attempts have failed due to assassin incompetence, 1 due to bystander intervention, 1 due to local police intervention (in Kuwait), and 1 due to secret service security measures). In 2005 someone threw a grenade at George Bush. It fell short because the the assassin accidentally hit a girl with it failed to detonate due to a defect of some sort. Had the Assassin actually had good aim and a different grenade Cheney would be President right now.

[Method]

If you want obscure check out the OST... you do know the OST don't you??

[edit]The DOE also maintains Special Response Teams which are supposedly some of the baddest of the bad when it comes to SWAT operations.[/edit]

[nezumi]

I didn't know their record was so weak. That said, Shadowrun notwithstanding, actually jumping in front of a bullet is pretty tough.

[hyzmarca]

I didn't know their record was so weak. That said, Shadowrun notwithstanding, actually jumping in front of a bullet is pretty tough.

It is really an issue of the impossibility of building a perfect defense against modern weapons in public appearances combined with the fact that attackers can pick and choose their time and place to best exploit flaws in defense. Also, the vast majority of people who consider assasination are mentally ill and never get close to their targets due too poor planning. Those few who are sane and who plan well are far more likely to get close enough to actually make an attempt and far more likely to succeed.

[Wesley Street]

Another obscure agency is the Diplomatic Security Service (which is part of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security). Their agents come from all walks of life and they are unique in that they're both legal diplomats and law-enforcement officers. Their agents handle protection, cyber, info and physical security issues at embassies; and investigate terrorist activities caused by Americans on foreign soil.

[Mäx]

SOTA 2064 has a whole chapters about spies and differend inteligence agencies. It has a fluff pieces for:
-CIA(UCAS)
-UGB(Russia)
-Mossad(Israel)
-Argus(MET 2000)
-ERLA(CAS)
-Information Secretariat(Tir Tairngire)
-MI-5(UK)
-MIFD(Shiawase)
-Seraphim(Former Cross Applied Technologies)
-Watchers(Dunkelzahn)

[Faelan]

The Secret Service stops a multitude of potential threats to the president every year. The problem is that when doing executive protection you are inevitably at a huge disadvantage, all it takes is someone who knows what they are doing and is willing to die accomplishing their mission. It is a testament to their professionalism that pretty much any assassination attempt that might have a chance of success occurs at close range. The fact that they shut down the long range options so effectively, that ot have any chance of success it has to be up close, well then you are dealing with a crowd and the threats multiply. I don't care how good you are it's impossible to completely protect someone who is consistently doing things counter to good protection.

[FlakJacket]

In the SR 4 rules so far only the FBI is covered, but I was wondering whether there still would be some other secret service agencies.

Since there are a bunch of people out there doing a lot of great work improving the sixth world with their own stuff, I wanted to ask if anyone already had some ideas on this topic.

Going from memory the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) is still about and has now become the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Telesma (ATF&T) to cover the magic angle. The US Marshals Service merged with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police aka. the Mounties when what was left of the US and Canada joined together to form the UCAS and seem to be the guys in charge of the matrix now, I want to say it's mentioned in Target: Matrix, as well as their current day jobs. The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) is still going strong and now has BTLs to deal with as well. As you've already mentioned the FBI is also there and I'm sure that I've seen mentions of the Secret Service in one place or another but I'll let someone else drag out an actual reference for it. They also seem to have retconned the World Trade Centre terrorist attacks and creation of the Department of Homeland security into Shadowrun's back-history, something I have fairly mixed feelings about at best, so you've also got them as the central clearinghouse as well. I'm sure there are more but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

For intelligence agencies I was working on collecting together what had been mentioned in the sourcebooks so far and Raygun used to have a sub-site on his pages about them that grew out of a thread I started here in the forums but unfortunately real got in the way of things for me and Ray's site disappeared during the last big maintenance overhaul of the main dumpshock site IIRC. And since he's not really playing all that much nowadays or interested in Fourth Edition I doubt it'll be back up any time soon. I keep meaning to have a chat with him about it.

[hyzmarca]

The Secret Service stops a multitude of potential threats to the president every year. The problem is that when doing executive protection you are inevitably at a huge disadvantage, all it takes is someone who knows what they are doing and is willing to die accomplishing their mission. It is a testament to their professionalism that pretty much any assassination attempt that might have a chance of success occurs at close range. The fact that they shut down the long range options so effectively, that ot have any chance of success it has to be up close, well then you are dealing with a crowd and the threats multiply. I don't care how good you are it's impossible to completely protect someone who is consistently doing things counter to good protection.

Potential doesn't really count. The vast majority of threats they investigate were never serious to begin with.

Long range attacks are still viable, though in many cases heavier weapons would be required. Roadside bombs and mines are effective against motorcades, though their use requires knowing potential routes in advance and they would probably be discovered upon inspection of the route. As an armored limo can't survive multiple anti-tank hits, the use of HEAT and HEDP weapons at range against motorcades is very effective. And, needless to say, anyone with a cruise missile could take him out effortlessly during a public address.

[WeaverMount]

And, needless to say, anyone with a cruise missile could take him out effortlessly during a public address.

Assuming you can use it better than the Israelis

[WearzManySkins]

Assuming you can use it better than the Israelis

Well the Israelis have a better hit ratio than the US of recent times, in the past times no ie USS Liberty. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) But was that really a mis IDed target.

One could also use one of the UAV's to deliver a smart package into the target. FYI the US Military is not the only one with arm able UAV's.

But as some have already posted gaining the information of the route will allow some interesting weapons to be used.

WMS

[Faelan]

Long range attacks are still viable, though in many cases heavier weapons would be required. Roadside bombs and mines are effective against motorcades, though their use requires knowing potential routes in advance and they would probably be discovered upon inspection of the route. As an armored limo can't survive multiple anti-tank hits, the use of HEAT and HEDP weapons at range against motorcades is very effective. And, needless to say, anyone with a cruise missile could take him out effortlessly during a public address.

Long range attacks are viable assuming once again you know where, when, and how. Yes much heavier weapons are needed. Good luck getting anything man portable to affect that armored car. HEAT weapons that are man portable, and at least somewhat concealable are also pretty inaccurate at range. HEDP won't do much to it, and once again anything I can think of that you might be using is pretty damn inaccurate. Yes anyone with a cruise missile could, quite right about that, know anyone who has access. Every option you mentioned was very high risk, with a minimal success chance, not the way someone is going to go because of the degree of deterrence. Snipers are always an option with a much better chance of actually hitting the target however that's why exposure is usually limited, and if not the venue is controlled and likely firing positions are covered by fire. The Secret Services job sucks, but if they were not there we would go through presidents like water vis losing one here and there. So in my mind potentials do matter. Deterrence is the principal means of executive protection, because if someone wants your client dead bad enough it will come to a head, the shit will hit the fan and then it is a crap shoot whether they live or die.

[hyzmarca]

Anyone with sufficient programing knowledge could build an effective cruise missile guidance system from an of-the-shelf GPS device and a Playstation 2. Building an airframe and loading it up with explosives isn't terribly difficult or expensive. One can make RDX out of cleaning supplies. A good engine is expensive, but one can build a pulse-jet engine in a backyard from scrap parts.

[Faelan]

Only a couple of problems with that. One is the degree of ecm/eccm available in the convoy, number two is this badass toy. Chances are the ghetto cruise missile would get shot down.

[hyzmarca]

Only a couple of problems with that. One is the degree of ecm/eccm available in the convoy, number two is this badass toy. Chances are the ghetto cruise missile would get shot down.

That depends very much on cruising altitude and attack angle. Sufficient cruising altitude combined with a 90 degree attack angle would render anti-aircraft guns useless.

[Caine Hazen]

What, no love for the CAS Texas Rangers?