Secret Services...others than FBI, Anyone already made up some? Options

[WearzManySkins]

Well based on the stats you are giving I would assume you are talking about the AS 6 Kingfisher. Since it is launched from an air platform in the bomber category, think TU 16 or similar, my statement of which major government wants to start WWIII holds true. Seeing as how we would be looking at I believe three, maybe four governments who might have the capability to deliver, much less have the weapon system in question, I would not be too worried about a half cocked response.

Well bombers do not have to be launching platform, it is with in the possibility for other large commercial aircraft/airliners to carry and launch such missiles. Besides the mechanical aspects one just needs the correct inputs/voltages/current to spin up the gyros and guidance systems. Wonderful thing of Soviet technology tends to take the low tech approach to issue resolution.

WMS

[kzt]

Well bombers do not have to be launching platform, it is with in the possibility for other large commercial aircraft/airliners to carry and launch such missiles. Besides the mechanical aspects one just needs the correct inputs/voltages/current to spin up the gyros and guidance systems. Wonderful thing of Soviet technology tends to take the low tech approach to issue resolution.

Safe carriage and separation of large, multi-ton objects at several hundred knots is not trivial. Unless you have tested it multiple times the most likely effect is that they strike each other or the carrier is destroyed by flutter during carriage. If you have tested it multiple times people are likely to hear about it.

[Cthulhudreams]

Who the fuck is going to have both the capability to get nuclear weapons, very sophisticated (and expensive!) cruise missiles, and also wnt to actually fire them at the president of the united stars. You'd have to be retarded, or a james bond villian.

I think Hyzmarca misrepresents the challenges of jury rigging a homebuilt cruise missiles. Yes you can make a guidance system with low powered computing parts. However, that is actually a major software engineering challenge to make someone that will work most of the time. Then you have to master the major engineering challenge of making a guided rocket. This is very, very, very hard.

But it is a surmountable challenge, but you don't merely have to surmount it, you have to nail it, because unless you have a pretty big warhead, you'd need to get pretty close to the president to score a kill.

Finally, building a reliable explosive device that can be detonated inside a truck is actually pretty tough. It has eluded many a terrorist or they have blown themselves up - witness the fate of many IRA bombs and bombers or people in palestine.

Its tough stuff making it at home. And you need something that can survive being launched via rocket. Yeah. Right.

And even once you have the parts, you still have a significant SI task to get it all working together, and build some sort of delivery vehicle. You need an organization, and a pretty damn sophisticated one.

Even once you have an organization, people are going to notice you building and test these things, so either you fly blind without testing in which case it probably won't work, or you test it and probably get arrested.

[Shiloh]

Correction the missiles I am referring too, are at 90,000 feet at 4 mach, launched from a platform at 250 nm, in current US Military airframes and AAM's nothing can touch it.

Who are you correcting? I was responding to the "home made" cruise missile suggestions. Not many of those at Mach4, 250nM range. And even fewer carrying nuclear warheads. Frankly, if you're talking about defense against nuclear attack you're so far out of the FBI's remit as to be entirely off topic.

...you "may" be able to get a firing solution and intercept it on its 85 degree dive attack but that may also trigger a 350 kt nuclear airburst...

Not so. Most nukes are more likely to *not* go off than actually detonate, if they're mechanically disrupted.

Stingers will not even get close to stopping it.

Well, of course they aren't. They wouldn't stop an ICBM either.

Now a SM-6 Standard ERAM could but those are not everywhere.

I bet there's one off the coast pretty much any time the Pres is near enough for a Bear or a Blackjack to be at standoff range. Sitting in an Arleigh-Burke's VLC. I don't care how lo-tek the Russkies were, toting along a Kitchen under a wing isn't a trivial exercise in aerodynamics.

[WearzManySkins]

Safe carriage and separation of large, multi-ton objects at several hundred knots is not trivial. Unless you have tested it multiple times the most likely effect is that they strike each other or the carrier is destroyed by flutter during carriage. If you have tested it multiple times people are likely to hear about it.

Again the mechanical aspects, I never said it would be easy or trivial, but doable.

WMS

[WearzManySkins]

That is why it would be easier to take a already tested cruise missile than to build one from scratch.

@Shiloh that correction was not at you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) No defending the President from any attacks is well within their role, yes they may outsource to the various military organizations.

Reason a nuclear warhead is used in my examples is due the many issues of targeting a small moving target ie motorcade.

WMS

[Wesley Street]

Posts about obscure intelligence agencies and working them in Shadowrun... to how to whack the Prez. Okayyyyy, scary thread drift. Backing away slowly now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

[Ryu]

... and the answer is "powerbolt", delivered by a high-force summoned spirit of man.

[Drogos]

I'm pretty sure you're all on a list somewhere now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[CanRay]

Hell, I was probably on a few lists before I even got into Role Playing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[nezumi]

... and the answer is "powerbolt", delivered by a high-force summoned spirit of man.

Seriously though, can you imagine how many mages are putting how many dice towards spell defense basically 24/7? Brings up the question though, how often will the prez actually do stuff in person, and how often would it be a trid phantasm? I mean sure, the 1% of the population of the room who is astrally aware would know (although I could imagine them saying 'no astral perception or projection is permitted during this speech as a security measure', then slamming anyone who breaks the rule), but the other 99% of the room and everyone watching the trid would have no idea.

[WearzManySkins]

Hell, I was probably on a few lists before I even got into Role Playing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

hmm that sounds familiar to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Lists being the operative word. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

[Ryu]

Seriously though, can you imagine how many mages are putting how many dice towards spell defense basically 24/7? Brings up the question though, how often will the prez actually do stuff in person, and how often would it be a trid phantasm? I mean sure, the 1% of the population of the room who is astrally aware would know (although I could imagine them saying 'no astral perception or projection is permitted during this speech as a security measure', then slamming anyone who breaks the rule), but the other 99% of the room and everyone watching the trid would have no idea.

Honest misunderstanding, I was talking about the answer to the cruise missile. I´d use a Guardian spirit with Natural Weapon for the "other situation". If it wins initiative...

[Iota]

So there are still a bunch of agencies...well...I guess it could be stated that their behavior is still quite the same as nowadays, meaning: the FBI does whatever it wants, CIA feeling like god, ATT&F believing themselves to be cooler than the rest and so on...

Question: would the FBI operate outside the UCAS as long as they feel it`s their case/something personal, or would they call the CIA in?

Ok @ those who want to keep discussing how to kill the prez: Plz open your own thread!

[Shiloh]

Ok @ those who want to keep discussing how to kill the prez: Plz open your own thread!

We're discussing the role of a fictional Secret Service in a fictional future polity known as the UCAS... and how an airburst nuke would probably do the trick.

[FlakJacket]

Hello there Mr. Homeland Security. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

Please, if stuff like this is enough to trigger notice of any kind I'd be on the list long before now. I think the post I made on another board a little while back on the best ways to carry out terrorist strikes in the the US - knock down electricity pylons, blow up the power sub-stations by the power plants or where stepped down near the cities, oil refineries or liquid natural gas depots, major gas or water pipes that supply large cities, key telecommunication hubs, driving a large truck full of AMFO into a major commuter tunnel and detonating it to collapse the tunel stc. - on targets that would cause a lot of dusruption yet are fairly lightly if at all guarded would have raised some flags way before plotting to kill the President would. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Drogos]

Please, if stuff like this is enough to trigger notice of any kind I'd be on the list long before now. I think the post I made on another board a little while back on the best ways to carry out terrorist strikes in the the US - knock down electricity pylons, blow up the power sub-stations by the power plants or where stepped down near the cities, oil refineries or liquid natural gas depots, major gas or water pipes that supply large cities, key telecommunication hubs, driving a large truck full of AMFO into a major commuter tunnel and detonating it to collapse the tunel stc. - on targets that would cause a lot of dusruption yet are fairly lightly if at all guarded would have raised some flags way before plotting to kill the President would. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You'd like to think so wouldn't ya (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Woot, I love laughing at the expense of my government.

[Ryu]

Any corporation that provides public service needs some form of secret service. You do not want the public to doubt the security of their level of service. Yet you need an active security force.

The department of Water Disposal was IIRC part of a Who hunts the Hunter?, demon-hunting in the severs for astronomic pay.

Matrix GridSec has to have ultra-hard strike teams to ensure that the infrastructure nodes are taboo for everyone. They would be paranoid about data security, so NO COMMENT is all ever said about them.

All corporations have intelligence divisions, nothing obscure about that. The corp specialities really show in their special assets, be it tech, magic, augmentations, weapons... much of the fluff is from older sources. Even with the outdated corp info, I recommend the Corporate Shadowfiles for SR economics. Pretty good stuff.

Many policlubs will finance some form of secret service, or at least have a few people with access to the shadow community and a network of snitches.

[Caine Hazen]

Please, if stuff like this is enough to trigger notice of any kind I'd be on the list long before now. I think the post I made on another board a little while back on the best ways to carry out terrorist strikes in the the US - knock down electricity pylons, blow up the power sub-stations by the power plants or where stepped down near the cities, oil refineries or liquid natural gas depots, major gas or water pipes that supply large cities, key telecommunication hubs, driving a large truck full of AMFO into a major commuter tunnel and detonating it to collapse the tunel stc. - on targets that would cause a lot of disruption yet are fairly lightly if at all guarded would have raised some flags way before plotting to kill the President would. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So we should be expecting a delay into your trip to the US this year? You know what they really do to those people they "interrogate" at the airport?

[Ryu]

And that they really and within their full rights interrogate people at the airports?

[WeaverMount]

About a year ago, I called a friend of mine while I had some time to kill in an airport. Pretty we start talking about game. Pretty quick I realize I'm saying things out loud in an airport like "Oh yeah, with your contacts getting termite is no issue, it's really nothing to cook" and "Mortors? It will take a bit, but it's totally do able. ... yeah, likely is the best way to get that target. ... yeah uhh huuu, ... yeah ... we're still go for monday"

[CanRay]

The department of Water Disposal was IIRC part of a Who hunts the Hunter?, demon-hunting in the severs for astronomic pay.

Yep, that was the book. Department of Water and Wastewater (DWW).

And just when you thought Ghouls were bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Shiloh]

About a year ago, I called a friend of mine while I had some time to kill in an airport. Pretty we start talking about game. Pretty quick I realize I'm saying things out loud in an airport like "Oh yeah, with your contacts getting termite is no issue, it's really nothing to cook" and "Mortors? It will take a bit, but it's totally do able. ... yeah, likely is the best way to get that target. ... yeah uhh huuu, ... yeah ... we're still go for monday"

Meep. It still occasionally hits me: the sense of detachment that allows us gamers to have such conversations in public. "And then I shot him in the face for being a tosser." And we wonder why we get funny looks.

[Ryu]

If you want really funny looks, alternate between talking about weapons (SR) and how much funds one needs for retirement (real). You WILL notice that you are doing something wrong, noone is THAT uncouth.

[Snow_Fox]

Anyhow, UCAS Marshals might still be around, doing the job the US Marshals/RCMP did before, which was handle things that tresspass over multiple jurisdictions (Federal Prisoner transfers for example.).

Federal Marshalls are the enforcement arm of the Federal Court system. Which is why they do prisoner transport. They provide security for the courts, sieze property the courts declare forfit and hunt down people declare by the courts to be fugitives. The FBI does the investigative ,collect the evidence stuff. Marshalls don't need to sweat evidence. They're ordered to act and have the backing of the courts behind them. (I passed the written but there was a hiring freeze and I got into another line of work.)

For other agencies there's the British MI-5- the British FBI. and MI-6- Her Majesties Secret Service-
France's Deuxieme Bureau (hard case right wingers to oppose the openly socialist left in France.)
Israel's Mossad and of course whatever the flock the KGB is being called in 2070.

Then there aree more historical groups that could rise up from the dust.
Smersh. more properly division 6 of the MVD. A particulaly ruthless division of what became the KGB, under Beria in the early 1950's completely scary MF's. Believed to have been responsible for the death of Trotsky in Mexico and exterminating collaborators in the USSR as lands were taken back from the Nazi's.
This was disbanded when Krushchev came to power in an attempt to break the paranoid/death dealing way of life that had epitomised Soviet politics since 1918. As some Russians hark back to the "good ol' days" of vlast whose to say this wouldn't come back?